Imagining that shouting loud enough or writing enough letters to your congressman will get m4a passed or even voted on is pure liberalism. Organize a collective front and stage strikes/get militant if you want to effect actual political outcomes. Everything else is either jerking off or whining, or god forbid a mix of both
if you believe in direct action organizing I don't see why you would see forcing a vote as somehow a bad thing, you can organize and do electoral pressure to push from all fronts, saying this is a waste of time is just giving yourself an excuse not to do anything and reeks of "I'm smart because I think this is dumb but I'm also not doing anything to help"
This is a waste of time because of the desired outcome. What will a vote accomplish? We'll out the bad actors within the party and then everyone will see them as the cretins they are and lo and behold the Democratic party will swing left overnight? This is conspiracy minded bs that imagines that a great revelation to the public will somehow result in political change rather than a progression of material forces. You're turning material dialectics back on its head towards Hegelian dialectics where the superstructure is the engine of history rather than the base. There is no end goal here, it's just back to trying to distinguish bad and good actors again so we can jerk off about how much we love some and hate the others and then we'll repeat the process in 2-4 years. Join a fucking union or something, jesus
it's not a "conspiracy" to think forcing corporate Dems to explain to their voters why they voted against healthcare for all is a good thing and beneficial to the long term goal of passing M4A
right, so you admit you didn't actually have a reason to be against this other than to act like you're somehow superior for calling it pointless
I feel doomer all the time, but I'm actively trying to avoid spreading it because it doesn't help anybody and why should I get in the way of ppl actually trying something
Nah you're still wrong but you seem like you're committed to it so go off queen/king. Me yelling at you on chapo.chat is as pointless a time sink as you yelling at AOC or Jimmy Dore or whoever on twitter. Have fun with it if it gets your rocks off my guy, I just don't see this as genuine praxis that is moving a left wing movement towards a goal line. First and foremost because there is no constituted left wing movement within US politics, just a bunch of disparate opinion havers and the working class masses who must suffer the ill wishes of our rulers
nice, and what does that have to do with healthcare exactly? why do you feel the need to take down a movement you're not a part of? should I come over to where you work and tell everyone "don't bother with this green shit this is a pointless gesture and will never get us Green New Deal/M4A"
no because that would be fucking stupid and irrelevant
still didn't answer if you're actually doing anything yourself.
looking back at how you're talking about organizing and direct action, i think you might be confused about what those things are and what purposes they serve.
You've been given plenty of good reasons why this issue is a non-starter. You also said forcing the vote would be good for organizing. Being a supporter of something is good and all, but it isn't organizing. I'm really curious what it would look like to use this vote as an organizing tool. Likewise, if you don't see how my building local power with my own organizing is good for the broader fight for m4a, then i really suggest you explore more about how organizing works
haha struck a nerve did I? your "green schools" bullshit is pretty pointless tbh, but I'm not going to tear it down as to why since I'm not doing anything to help the environment
m4a is not incrementalist
Imagining that shouting loud enough or writing enough letters to your congressman will get m4a passed or even voted on is pure liberalism. Organize a collective front and stage strikes/get militant if you want to effect actual political outcomes. Everything else is either jerking off or whining, or god forbid a mix of both
if you believe in direct action organizing I don't see why you would see forcing a vote as somehow a bad thing, you can organize and do electoral pressure to push from all fronts, saying this is a waste of time is just giving yourself an excuse not to do anything and reeks of "I'm smart because I think this is dumb but I'm also not doing anything to help"
This is a waste of time because of the desired outcome. What will a vote accomplish? We'll out the bad actors within the party and then everyone will see them as the cretins they are and lo and behold the Democratic party will swing left overnight? This is conspiracy minded bs that imagines that a great revelation to the public will somehow result in political change rather than a progression of material forces. You're turning material dialectics back on its head towards Hegelian dialectics where the superstructure is the engine of history rather than the base. There is no end goal here, it's just back to trying to distinguish bad and good actors again so we can jerk off about how much we love some and hate the others and then we'll repeat the process in 2-4 years. Join a fucking union or something, jesus
You dumb libs don't think we should keep Pelosi as speaker of the house 😏
Yas kween
it's not a "conspiracy" to think forcing corporate Dems to explain to their voters why they voted against healthcare for all is a good thing and beneficial to the long term goal of passing M4A
Well good luck with it then
right, so you admit you didn't actually have a reason to be against this other than to act like you're somehow superior for calling it pointless
I feel doomer all the time, but I'm actively trying to avoid spreading it because it doesn't help anybody and why should I get in the way of ppl actually trying something
Nah you're still wrong but you seem like you're committed to it so go off queen/king. Me yelling at you on chapo.chat is as pointless a time sink as you yelling at AOC or Jimmy Dore or whoever on twitter. Have fun with it if it gets your rocks off my guy, I just don't see this as genuine praxis that is moving a left wing movement towards a goal line. First and foremost because there is no constituted left wing movement within US politics, just a bunch of disparate opinion havers and the working class masses who must suffer the ill wishes of our rulers
WTF is "genuine praxis", again with the weird purity/superiority helplessness mindset
They just like make up some shit, like with Obama's ostensible public option which he killed at the first available opportunity.
it's an enormous leap to assume people calling this fight a waste of time aren't doing anything.
K, so what are you doing?
helping organize a local green schools campaign and public transit campaign. hbu?
nice, and what does that have to do with healthcare exactly? why do you feel the need to take down a movement you're not a part of? should I come over to where you work and tell everyone "don't bother with this green shit this is a pointless gesture and will never get us Green New Deal/M4A"
no because that would be fucking stupid and irrelevant
why are you mad at people making valid criticisms of this strategy to you on chapo.chat? do you work at chapo.chat? is everyone here your coworker?
lol
wait but are you actually organizing around this? you didn't answer
I didn't ask you what you're organizing around I asked what are you doing to advance M4A which you revealed is nothing
still didn't answer if you're actually doing anything yourself.
looking back at how you're talking about organizing and direct action, i think you might be confused about what those things are and what purposes they serve.
I support forcing the vote, you are the one shitting on it for no reason
You've been given plenty of good reasons why this issue is a non-starter. You also said forcing the vote would be good for organizing. Being a supporter of something is good and all, but it isn't organizing. I'm really curious what it would look like to use this vote as an organizing tool. Likewise, if you don't see how my building local power with my own organizing is good for the broader fight for m4a, then i really suggest you explore more about how organizing works
haha struck a nerve did I? your "green schools" bullshit is pretty pointless tbh, but I'm not going to tear it down as to why since I'm not doing anything to help the environment
get it now?
so you're not actually doing anything for m4a besides complaining on chapo.chat?
the only complainers I see here are the libs who are being mocked for being opposed to this
Your bit is trash
lol you are so angry right now
I mean yeah. Aren’t you?
in general, sure
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;-)
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you're great!