I am personally for radical direct democracy, nothing less, nothing more, because I view the political as trumping the economic, feel free to purge me once the revolution is there but I am interested if there are other “alternative” takes

  • sagarmatha [none/use name]
    4·
    4 years ago

    these ideals now have a life of their own i’d contend so we need to look at both, even Marx talked about how, for exemple, religious ethics, has an impact on the implementation of the calitalist system

      • sagarmatha [none/use name]
        1·
        4 years ago

        I am basically both siding this dichotomy since I do believe that ideas come from material conditions (although beyond economic) but that given the length of our stay here, they’ve evolved into something of their own which also affect the world, beyond materialist relations, and that materialist relations go beyond the economic life

          • sagarmatha [none/use name]
            1·
            4 years ago

            not ideas really though, organizations, which has stong scientific backing, and other human creations, it becomes a part of the world and plays a part in it, why wouldn’t it affect it?

              • sagarmatha [none/use name]
                1·
                4 years ago

                no I believe that organizations have an end in themselves and pursue their own ideology not that they embody any kind of ideal, i am talking about ideas in a practical sense and how they change worldviews not theoretical ideals, example being goldman sachs which imbues on its employee something beyond typical wall street bank profits, or the eu trying to remove barriers, it is also in its ideological core beyond its materialist actions

                  • sagarmatha [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    that’s the beauty though organizations have their own interest divergent of their individual members, replicated through organizational history and rituals

                      • sagarmatha [none/use name]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        you’re misunderstanding what organizational and institutional immaterial contributions are, and most definitely not positive, what I am saying is, for example with fox news, there isn’t just materialist conditions that lead to sexual harassment, organizational culture plays a role, and increasingly that role, with the increasing complexity of the world, becomes a better explaining factor than materialism, and on direct democracy, ever heard of La commune? Not a lib project

                  • sagarmatha [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago
                    1. there are institutions transcending classes, like churches, some have been involved with liberation movements, some with the nazis, and some have been arbiter between sides, or the army which can be at the same time a conduit for the elite and for bolshevization, or Hezbollah
                    2. classes do not get realized everywhere, there are places where ethnic or familial tribes are more important, and this gives parallel hierarchies, like in Yemen or India
                    3. people do not go to like minded institutions, they are molded by it or forced to leave, later, if they don’t fit, any company you worked for is a prime example
                    4. organizations have their own motives and goals, or you really think that the goal of Bernie Sanders is to stymie progress, no that’s the role of the senate as it was put un the us constitution, and as is done in practice, similarly NATO’s goal remains centred on Russia, because of organizational culture, despite not being the most immediate threat
                    5. I do not believe in class supra-structures as whole encompassing as Marx does, do of that what you will but it explains a lot of my divergences here