I really hate admitting it but I struggle to talk myself out of being low key antinatal.
It just seems supremely arrogant to force a being into existence. Yeah they may have an awesome life, but they may have a life of suffering and pain, you have no way of knowing for sure. Even if we lived in fucking Star Trek communism there’s still a chance their life could be one of pain and misery so I really don’t feel okay taking that gamble just for the satisfaction of having a kinda cute sorta clone of myself.
Being a socialist is about wanting to build a better future for human kind. If creating new humans is arrogant and shitty because their life might be bad, we're basically saying that actually the human race should go extinct. Misanthropy and socialism are incompatible.
Like I said in my other reply here, antinatalism as a personal choice is fine. If you feel arrogant making a baby, don't make a baby.
This is a disingenuous framing. I can think that having children is a bad idea and still want to build a better world for the people who are alive. I’m not anti-natalist because I’m a misanthrope, it’s because I care about people and don’t want them to suffer through a life that they never wanted in the first place.
I wish I had never been born. My life has been utterly miserable and it isn’t the sort of thing I’d ever want another being to suffer through. It’s not arrogance to want to spare others from suffering. My parents did not feel it was arrogant to have me, but they really should have. They’re emotionally immature people who were absolutely not capable of good parenting and of course that’s exactly the sort of people eager to have children without thinking through the consequences of choosing to bring someone into existence.
To be clear, I’m not advocating for enforcing anti-natalism or anything like that. It’s not something that could ever be ethically done even if it was possible. I just don’t care to be accused of arrogance or misanthropy because I think forcing other people to go through what I have is a shitty thing to do.
To be clear, I’m not advocating for enforcing anti-natalism or anything like that.
Then we don't disagree on anything here? I thought I was clear that personal antinatalism is fine, and that I only have a problem with enforced antinatalism? I myself would probably prefer to adopt.
I never accused you of being arrogant, I was repeating your argument about having kids being arrogant (or feeling arrogant to you). I reread my statement to make absolutely sure I didn't misword something there to give you that impression, but I definitely didn't. I don't think your position is arrogant in the slightest, its actually very humble.
And I didn't mean to accuse you of being a misanthrope either, though in this case I can see how you got that impression. I was aiming the misanthrope argument at enforced antinatalism, and people who hold their personal stance of antinatalism on others.
Also to be clear, criticizing individual parents for having kids before they were ready and shit is fine as well.
Sorry, I read your comment as implying that anyone with anti-natalist beliefs was driven by either misanthropy or a desire to not feel arrogant and I got defensive. I think we’re on the same page here and it’s all cool.
(Also I’m not the same user you were responding to initially, just so you know)
I really hate admitting it but I struggle to talk myself out of being low key antinatal.
It just seems supremely arrogant to force a being into existence. Yeah they may have an awesome life, but they may have a life of suffering and pain, you have no way of knowing for sure. Even if we lived in fucking Star Trek communism there’s still a chance their life could be one of pain and misery so I really don’t feel okay taking that gamble just for the satisfaction of having a kinda cute sorta clone of myself.
Being a socialist is about wanting to build a better future for human kind. If creating new humans is arrogant and shitty because their life might be bad, we're basically saying that actually the human race should go extinct. Misanthropy and socialism are incompatible.
Like I said in my other reply here, antinatalism as a personal choice is fine. If you feel arrogant making a baby, don't make a baby.
This is a disingenuous framing. I can think that having children is a bad idea and still want to build a better world for the people who are alive. I’m not anti-natalist because I’m a misanthrope, it’s because I care about people and don’t want them to suffer through a life that they never wanted in the first place.
I wish I had never been born. My life has been utterly miserable and it isn’t the sort of thing I’d ever want another being to suffer through. It’s not arrogance to want to spare others from suffering. My parents did not feel it was arrogant to have me, but they really should have. They’re emotionally immature people who were absolutely not capable of good parenting and of course that’s exactly the sort of people eager to have children without thinking through the consequences of choosing to bring someone into existence.
To be clear, I’m not advocating for enforcing anti-natalism or anything like that. It’s not something that could ever be ethically done even if it was possible. I just don’t care to be accused of arrogance or misanthropy because I think forcing other people to go through what I have is a shitty thing to do.
Then we don't disagree on anything here? I thought I was clear that personal antinatalism is fine, and that I only have a problem with enforced antinatalism? I myself would probably prefer to adopt.
I never accused you of being arrogant, I was repeating your argument about having kids being arrogant (or feeling arrogant to you). I reread my statement to make absolutely sure I didn't misword something there to give you that impression, but I definitely didn't. I don't think your position is arrogant in the slightest, its actually very humble.
And I didn't mean to accuse you of being a misanthrope either, though in this case I can see how you got that impression. I was aiming the misanthrope argument at enforced antinatalism, and people who hold their personal stance of antinatalism on others.
Also to be clear, criticizing individual parents for having kids before they were ready and shit is fine as well.
Sorry, I read your comment as implying that anyone with anti-natalist beliefs was driven by either misanthropy or a desire to not feel arrogant and I got defensive. I think we’re on the same page here and it’s all cool.
(Also I’m not the same user you were responding to initially, just so you know)
That clone of you would be hella cute and don't you deny it.
Idk I’m kinda ugly
Nah you're cute bro, you just don't know it yet.
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