I can't believe I gave these people money.

  • PhaseFour [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    God, people are so fucking disingenuous here.

    "We should raise taxes on the wealthy" is not a serious plan to pay for M4A. It is useful propaganda. But it is not a plan. Socialists have organized around "we should raise taxes on the wealthy" for decades, and we are no where closer to M4A. Every single major impediment still exists.

    • anthm17 [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      It's in the fucking bill.

      You're just spewing right wing talking points uncritically at this point.

      • PhaseFour [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        And how is that bill getting passed?

        You are calling me a Liberal while pretending a bill in Congress is worth the paper it is written on. There is no plan whatsoever to get the bourgeoisie to raise their taxes.

        • anthm17 [he/him]
          hexagon
          ·
          4 years ago

          No, I'm calling you a disingenuous lying fuck for saying they haven't thought about how to pay for it.

          It's just a right wing lie. That's all it is. You want to argue that it won't happen that's fine, but to say they haven't tried is a complete and total lie.

          • PhaseFour [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            The question of "how do you get the bourgeoisie to raise their taxes?" is a serious aspect of "how are you going to pay for it?" that no one wants to consider.

            A document saying "socialism now!" is not a serious plan for socialism. A document saying "higher taxes on the rich!" is not a serious plan for M4A.

              • PhaseFour [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                4 years ago

                This is not cynicism. I don't know how anyone can be cynical after the show-of-force the proletariat demonstrated last summer.

                I am deeply cynical of the Democratic Party. I don't expect concessions until the anger we saw last summer is sharpened into a political weapon. The two tasks for communists is:

                1. Demonstrate national bourgeois institutions are illegitimate.
                2. Build the base of support within you community.
                • anthm17 [he/him]
                  hexagon
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  This is not cynicism.

                  It's shitty cynical bullshit you use to advocate for nothing.

                  I don’t know how anyone can be cynical after the show-of-force the proletariat demonstrated last summer

                  Oh you aren't calling them riots yet? haven't quite started spewing those right wing lies yet?

                  • PhaseFour [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    4 years ago

                    If you want to continue to lie to the People and yourself - as if you have real plan to win concessions for working people - be my guest. I'm not that arrogant. And I do not want to lie to the People.

                    We need socialism. The national strategy and tactics need to hashed out by a united communist movement. Until that arises, I will continue to build a base of support in my community.

                    • anthm17 [he/him]
                      hexagon
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      You aren't building socialism you're just a cynical wrecker.

                      I’m not that arrogant.

                      You are.

                      Just a cynical asshole who will reject everything and anything as being pie in the sky and insist that we need socialism before we can do anything.

            • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]
              ·
              edit-2
              4 years ago

              "socialism is when the rich pay taxes" mentality is also lacking in long term vision (both in terms of understanding history and what the motivations are for the current people in power).

              This whole FTV thing feels like social democrats being mad that the rate of profit has decayed to the point where it's not going to be viable for the US to buy off the people at home with healthcare by imperializing the world.

              The petrodollar is on its way out, the price of oil went negative last year and that doesn't bode well for americans who want to just continue printing money and rely on the constant demand for oil purchases to keep inflation down.

              • PhaseFour [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                4 years ago

                I think there's an aspect of FTV you are missing. Many want to heighten the contradictions within the Democratic Party to demonstrate its limitations.

                I agree with everything else.

                • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  That's entirely fair, I think it's a good thing to expose these institutions for how unwilling they are to represent the people that they purport to.