Mind you, I don't think we should trust or support liberals either, and of course we should be opposed to any laws they might push to strengthen the police state, or any other new laws that could otherwise harm us. However, I think the attack against the right that's likely coming might be a strategically good thing for the left, for the following reasons:

  1. Just my opinion, but support for free speech should probably end with people who are organizing so they can murder me, you, and the people we care deeply about. None of these people would support our free speech or even basic human rights if they ever got full control over the government.

  2. Corporations never cared about free speech anyway. Those saying that social media will come after leftists next are naively ignorant of the fact that they already have and will do so in the future. It's not as if going after the right will somehow open up a new door for them as far as this goes, but at the very least, denying fascists a platform is still a good thing.

  3. If the liberal establishment ever actually grew a spine and decided to confront the right using federal law enforcement (most likely FBI), the efforts towards this could help tie up resources and deflect attention away from organizing on the left.

  4. Since most people in local police departments and some federal agencies are in full support of racism and/or fascism, attempts by liberals to address this would likely be a difficult battle for both law enforcement and the liberal establishment, which would benefit the left for obvious reasons.

I've seen some comments on twitter leaning towards supporting the supposed rights of Trump protestors because "free speech" and because it would somehow open the door to targeting the left. This strikes me as naive, since they would do that anyway with the tools they have, but I'd love to hear your opinions on this.

  • T_Doug [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    If the liberal establishment ever actually grew a spine and decided to confront the right using federal law enforcement (most likely FBI), the efforts towards this could help tie up resources and deflect attention away from organizing on the left.

    Here's a historical perspective.

    Between 1964-71 the FBI "grew a spine" and initiated a massive Counter Intelligence Program (or COINTEPRO) targeted against 'white hate groups' such as the KKK, American Nazi Party, and the National States Rights Party. COINTELPRO's had been used previously against communist/socialist orgs. However, this one was definitively targeted towards the far right. Archival documents reveal that the intention of the program was to "to expose, disrupt, and otherwise neutralize" the activities of the groups, "their leaders, and adherents.". And the FBI was successful to a great extent in doing just that, to the point that at one time a fifth of all registered Klansman were FBI informants.

    But the exact opposite of what you predict occurred. "COINTELPRO- White Hate Groups" was shortly followed by "COINTELPRO- Black Nationalists", and "COINTELPRO- New Left". The latter programs entailed monumentally more resources, than was used to disrupt White Hate groups, being targeted against against Black and Left liberation organizations (and also far more mild orgs) which appeared to pose any sort of threat to the American State. Notably: the Black Panthers where systematically and brutally destroyed, while the Students for a Democratic Society was wrecked from the inside. Ultimately, the powers, resources, and autonomy used by the FBI to fight Fascism was dwarfed by that which was used to later attack minorities and the Left. The FBI's expansive programs to aggressively counter the right only gave them more experience, leeway, and power to aggressively counter the Left simultaneously and after.

    One should recognize that as the Liberal State's interests are opposed to those of the Left; the expansion of State powers for the purported reason of fighting an organization we disagree with will never solely be targeted towards that organization. An example is that the expansions of antisemitic hate speech laws to silence Holocaust deniers (a very good thing) often has the consequence of those same laws being used to silence Left wing dissent against Israel (it's for that reason that Norman Finkelstein is a Free Speech absolutist). Similarly; any powers and resources utilized by the FBI to fight Fascism will invariably be multiplied and turned against us whenever a rising Left beings to seriously challenges that same Liberal Establishment.

    Despite it's minuscule commitments in fighting far right challenges to the American State, the FBI is a net force for harm and a roadblock to any socialist revolution. As such, the Left should work to destroy it; not engage in the futile activity of trying to redirect its resources against the bad guys.

    • pooh [she/her, love/loves]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Between 1964-71 the FBI “grew a spine” and initiated a massive Counter Intelligence Program (or COINTEPRO) targeted against ‘white hate groups’ such as the KKK, American Nazi Party, and the National States Rights Party. COINTELPRO’s had been used previously against communist/socialist orgs. However, this one was definitively targeted towards the far right. Archival documents reveal that the intention of the program was to “to expose, disrupt, and otherwise neutralize” the activities of the groups, “their leaders, and adherents.”. And the FBI was successful to a great extent in doing just that, to the point that at one time a fifth of all registered Klansman were FBI informants.

      I wasn't aware that this started in response to 'white hate groups'. I had assumed it was designed from the outset to target leftists and the civil rights movement, since the state saw them as a more direct threat to their power.

      One should recognize that as the Liberal State’s interests are opposed to those of the Left; the expansion of State powers for the purported reason of fighting an organization we disagree with will never solely be targeted towards that organization. An example is that the expansions of antisemitic hate speech laws to silence Holocaust deniers (a very good thing) often has the consequence of those same laws being used to silence Left wing dissent against Israel (it’s for that reason that Norman Finkelstein is a Free Speech absolutist). Similarly; any powers and resources utilized by the FBI to fight Fascism will invariably be multiplied and turned against us whenever a rising Left beings to seriously challenges that same Liberal Establishment.

      I am under no illusion that the state won't come after the left if they view it as a threat, and I certainly don't support any expansion of laws or law enforcement that would eventually be used against us. It does seem to me as though the focus is going to be on stopping the right, since they are a more direct threat to the liberal establishment, but you make good points about those resources being used against the left as well, and maybe it's naive on my part to assume we wouldn't be as much of a target while the focus is shifted.