We pirate movies, games and songs that are made by workers who would undoubtedly make more money if we had bought them instead. Nevertheless we justify piracy by saying that intellectual property is unjust and exploitative.

So wouldn't the same logic apply to OnlyFans? There is currently a movement where people are subscribing to OnlyFans, uploading all the content on porn sites and then unsubscribing. I'm seeing this get criticized, but it's the same things as piracy right? Those who do want to pay will pay, while those who pirate are those who never would have paid in the first place.

  • weshallovercum [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Unlike prostitutes who work under a pimp who exploits them, there is literally no exploitation here, apart from whatever small fees they have to pay OnlyFans. Intellectual property is a sham that needs to be destroyed, not upheld because a small percent of people benefit from it.

    By definition, sex-workers are not proles but rather petit-bourgs, as they own their means of production. Besides, the most succesful OnlyFans workers earn tens of thousands of dollars.

      • glimmer_twin [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Sex workers who are operating in places where it’s illegal to do so are closer to lumpen than petit-boug ffs, like you say it can be about survival and coercion

      • weshallovercum [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        If IP is a sham, then making money from porn is also a sham. It doesn't matter if the porn comes from a major studio or an independent creator on OnlyFans. Just like it wouldn't matter if the movie is an indie movie or a Disney Production.

        I agree that people have the right to their bodies of course, but people do not actually have a right to the images of their body. I'm not saying in a moral sense, but it literally the law that people are not entitled to images or videos of them.

        I'm not against sex work, although I won't lose sleep if a woman who makes $10k per month gets her porn pirated. Self-employed people are petit-bourg by definition. You're completely missing my point in my OP, maybe because my main question is worded poorly. I am saying that if pirating OnlyFans is bad, then so is all other forms of piracy that involves a loss of revenue.

          • weshallovercum [any]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Discussions of morality are idealist by definition. The only material argument here is that all forms of piracy is exploitation(in the material Marxist sense).

            Personally, I don't care if either video games or porn is pirated. I just want people to understand that both are the same, and you are being hypocritical if you pirate one but claim that pirating the other is bad.

            OnlyFans people and independent prostitutes do own their means of production : their own bodies.

              • weshallovercum [any]
                ·
                4 years ago

                It's said that Marx laughed whenever people talked to him about morality. Giving the moral question context does not make it a material analysis. All normative philosophy is idealist. Anyway, I'm only saying this because you called me an idealist as if your analysis is somehow a materialist analysis. We are both engaged in idealism.

                Anyway enough with the philosophical essays. The commodity 'porn' is produced using the means of production 'human body, sex toys etc'. Labor is the actual work of making porn. Labor such as factory labor or farm labor produce commodities like cars or wheat, and the means of production are 'factory' and 'farm'. There is no confusion here. Sex-workers own their means of production.

                Finally, there are laws against publishing nonconsensual pornography called revenge porn laws. But onlyfans is consensual pornography, and only IP laws apply to their free distribution. So it is wrong to use the argument "you are distributing against their consent", as if the same doesn't apply to movies or games.

                  • weshallovercum [any]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    I'm sorry but you'll probably be one of the greatest philosophers of all time if you think you have found a material basis to morality. Until then, Marxist-tinged or not, morality is still an idealist affair.

                    I am a communist. The act of piracy will have almost no effect on the socialist project. I have no idea why you're bringing that up.

                    Piracy harms the person making content, true. Not pirating harms the buyer who has to part with their hard-earned money for something that can technically be replicated at zero cost, this is also true.

                    You haven't actually explained why it is morally acceptable to pirate games or movies.

                    EDIT: What is the MOP that petit-bourgs such as independently practising doctors or lawyers use? Your understanding of MOP is flawed.

          • weshallovercum [any]
            ·
            4 years ago

            I think you're the only person in this thread who has made a reasonable argument. The opportunity cost of a pirated copy translates to a fraction of a cent per worker, while for an amateur porn-maker it's the whole $10-15. So I guess that's why pirating from large corps is not that bad, compared to indie game, film or song makers. So both are equally bad in the moral sense, but in terms of material harm, it's much smaller for workers of large corps.