Im grappling with this because Im a materialist athiest but I find alot of the axioms on how to live a life in buddhism to be extremely beneficial for me. mindfulness and the 8 fold path have always intrigued me and recently as I have gotten into guided mindfulness more (which often have many buddhist inspirations for obvious reasoms) I find myself trying to anchor myself and detach so to speak from things that bring me suffering etc.
my issues is the spiritual aspect which isn’t for me but i dont want to be rude or disrespectful. ive read alot online i cant just take a buffet style buddhism or whatever and i am stuck in this middle where i can’t help what I believe but i also want to share the peace the parts of buddhism have helped me.
idk if this is nonsense but i thought itd be nice to have a sounding board while I ponder this
Its fine to take whatever bits of any philosophy and apply them just don't call yourself a Buddhist and don't be a lib
oh no id never pray, Id only talk about some of the philosophical and mindset aspects without the whole metaphysical part. that would be totally cringe i agree
yeah i wasn’t aware of this term i just felt kind of conflicted about it is all. ill look into WAB next time i wanna do a deep dive
I'm also an atheist so I may just be providing an echo chamber but I feel like as long as you don't try to uh.. "atheistsplain(?)" to a proper buddhist why the spiritual stuff is "wrong" it shouldn't be a problem.
Are you studying it with actual buddhists or just online and in private. I think it's understandable that spiritual buddhists might say to other buddhists that it's not a la carte but I don't think that necessitates that it be the same for you.
My partner went through AA for a bit and they're agnostic. The program has a heavy emphasis on religion but likewise they just kinda cherry picked out the stuff that was beneficial to their mental health and well being. (though the program kind of promotes that for secular people since they're whole thing is helping people get over addiction. they do really push the idea of having a 'higher power' they just say it doesn't have to be the christian god tho)
Ultimately we're all just picking out things that resonates with us and adopting them into ourselves.
oh yeah studying in private absolutely and would never talk down to someone actually practicing! i mean it helps me feel better that other people chery pick as well thanks for the input!
In theory, yes. In practice, there seems to be quite a bit of it for the average non-western lay practitioner.
A difference similar to a Jesuit Theologian talking about the World and Jesus as both an emanation of the divine Logos versus some chud in America paying to the Virgin Mary to make them rich.
Yes.
My general impression, both from reading and talking with Thai friends and from admittedly limited personal experience of Buddhist institutions in Thailand is that there is substantial integration of both the remnants of Mahayana Buddhism as well as Hindu and Folk traditions into day to day religious life and belief, especially in rural regions.
But that could be misinterpretation, or that other religious concepts are repurposed as representations of Theravada concepts and I'm just not getting it.
the idea of rebirth and karma and the cycle is where I feel a little alienated (as edgy/cynical as it sounds) think there’s no inherent purpose to human life other than that found by them. we are biological automotans just like animals. my thoughts aren’t special just synapses bursting. so the idea i am living this life in order to break from this cycle and become enlightenmented and it will pass onto the next attempt is hard pill for me to swallow
soo anything thats transcendental or meta physical in that way i can’t bring myself to believe. no disrespect to others though of course. it could totally be a misunderstanding to me as well of course as im definitely dipping my toes into it
poor use of words on the metaphysical aspect for my my apologies, yeah I could ignore it! I was just worried about respecting it as i hear some stirs about picking and choosing parts of it. the term “buffet buddhism” because people take what they want is common online. i didn’t wanna be THAT ass hole you know?
omg that was beautifully said. I value your insight greatly! seriously great to put things into context
All religious practice is disrespectful. I will be taking questions, but not until saturday when I have rum in me and feel up to fighting the god botherers.
I think it probably goes without saying but the term “Buddhism” also encompasses a whole host of different traditions and beliefs that might largely overlap while still covering a wealth of branching variations. It feels important to sort of be mindful of that larger context as a general rule.
I recently got back in touch with a close friend from high school who was raised under a form of Theravada Buddhism particular to Lao culture, with certain expectations that felt incompatible with the kind of life my friend wanted to live — from the confusion of being told as a little kid you couldn’t hug your uncle now that he’s a monk and physical contact with unrelated (by a certain definition) women is forbidden, or being told to meditate by your grandmother the same way a kid might be told to go pray whenever that kid just needs an adult to fucking listen.
I felt kind of abashed since similar to you, I’ve been doing a lot of reading and exploration on the dharma, mindfulness, understanding our Consciousness, etc, while like... never experiencing an ounce of that baggage. This isn’t meant in a self-flagellating white guilt way — my friend’s husband has also been getting deep into meditation himself, and she expressed how helpful it’s been to have a grounding presence when her own upbringing kind of made that path totally unpalatable to her. I guess I just mean it’s probably like any other time you’re tapping into a rich vein of oral and written tradition too multifaceted to get too absolute one way or another. It’s cool to keep your eyes and ears open to the constellation of human experiences that emerged out of this ancient Indian aristocrat having a good sit under a fig tree, and keep an open mind. You might even find (but not necessarily!), when you start running up against some of the fuzzier or less concrete conceptual framework for Consciousness, that there might not be so strict a dichotomy between “secular” and “spiritual” as it initially seems.
Sorry this was so long and only kind of tangentially relates to your question (or maybe more in parallel?) but other people have already given good answers lol, like if you’re thoughtful about the kind of tools that you put into practice and not an asshole you’re totally fine. Also apologies if that didn’t make a whole lot of sense, it’s just something I’ve been thinking about recently and just now putting to words.
I'm in a similar boat, and have found Soto Zen Buddhism to be pretty good.
Brad Warner's books are a good starting point. (Keep in mind that Brad Warner is a total pissboy who advocated for Trump and doesn't believe in masks.) You could probably just read Hardcore Zen and Sit Down and Shut Up and get all his good bits. Our sangha "teacher" also recommends Everyday Zen, though there is some BS in there.
And Soto Zen Buddhism went in whole hog for Japanese Imperialism. Probably goes without saying, but a spiritual / ethical framework alone won't stop you from making mistakes / doing harm.
But as far as religions / organizations go, it's pretty ok. Biggest thing is once you get started, find a sangha so you don't get too far in your own head.
EDIT: Adding deets
holy shit you’re really selling it huh? haha ill look into it regardless of that baggage 😅😅
glad you are adding deets because I am genuinely curious on what draws you to it in spite of that
Oh, totally. I'm no teacher or anything, but the TL;DR is that it's fundamentalist - in the sense that it's "Just Sitting" zen. That's what keeps me coming back. No scripture / additional beliefs required. The attitude to the scriptures is largely that they're "often helpful additions".
It's probably best if you find a teacher to talk it out with. FWIW, I'd recommend finding groups associated with the San Francisco Zen Center (SFZC), rather than the Soto Shu.
Soto Shu is a recent organization that's trying to become like the Vatican for Soto Zen - not a great look.
Brad Warner was my introduction and I think his first book, at least is good. What's his explanation on being a Trumper and antimasker?
