Why do you think someone is a Nazi in real life because they're trying to create a Nazi regime in a game? The entire point of games is to try things you wouldn't normally do…
You are decontextualising violence there. I can play a violent video game where I kill Nazis without much problem but I won't play a video game where I am a Nazi soldier fighting for Nazi Germany.
Even in Issac there is some justification to the whole scenario since the mother is abusive and not to mention the supernatural nature of the universe the game is set in. Would you play a video game where you psychotically beat up your warm, kind, lovely, caring mother for no moral reason? This is not just about trying it out once out of morbid curiosity. But trying it out over and over again and then complaining on an internet forum that the passerbys in the game are not letting you beat your lovely mother senseless.
Alright, a better example: Minecraft, which doesn't force you to do anything, but it's common for players to enslave villagers and make them work in tiny spaces, steal their crops and sell them back to them, make animal farms where the animals can barely move, etc.
How is this a defense? "In this game I can do the totally unnecessary crimes capitalists do in real life, therefore I must." No, you don't have to fucking do it.
Way back when, I made a device in Dwarf Fortress to burn the nerves off warriors slowly enough they wouldn't die of blood loss, so they would never feel pain in combat.
it would be a very strange person to be both not a nazi and also very dedicated to making fascism work in a bibeo gaem, so it's sort of an occam's razor situation. Simplest explanation is, they're a fascist.
Yeah, i am disgusted by fascism and would never even think to play as one. You have to be willing to carry a little water for fascists to play as one, and at that point you're going to be sitting at their table.
Idk bud, sounds like you must have some real darkness lurking around in your head unexamined if your id shows itself by wanting to "play as the bad guy".
FPS games don't cause school shootings, but I'm willing to bet proportionally more chuds play games like Manhunt, Kane & Lynch, the entire war shooter genre, etc. People look for escapism that conforms to their fantasies. So again, FPS games don't cause school shootings, but if a kid has the teachers and classmates turned into enemies in a video game, maybe be worried a little bit.
It's pretty clearly not, they're not suggesting the video game causes those dark thoughts. They're suggesting dark thoughts propel you into acting them out in video games.
Thank you. G*mers man, any criticism of there treats must be an inquisition. Whereas, in real life the "video games are evil" fanfare of the 90s-00s was at best a scapegoat to justify the government doing nothing to stop school shootings, and at worst an active advertising campaign to make rebellious kids feel badass because they bought an M rated game with lots of blood.
The id isn't real. It can be fun to play a role you don't in real life, because there aren't consequences like in real life, so you can enjoy the aesthetics or the satisfaction of some urges you can't and shouldn't in real life.
Literally what I'm talking about. I don't feel the urge to be a slaver who treats all women as pack animals, but that's what Caesar's Legion does in New Vegas.
Also, whether or not the id is literally real, it's effective communication to refer to the source of the urges you do admit we feel.
Do you also get upset about people doing BDSM because you don't want to choke your partner? This is a similar thing where someone is expressing an impulse in an appropriate space that would be dangerous in other contexts. If they get weird about it or take it to spaces where it is no longer safe by all means get upset, but while it is contained it doesn't matter to you. And I'm not saying "just let people enjoy things," because if someone is always playing the nazis that is concerning, but if they've done it once or twice I really don't think that means they're a wehrabo.
And I hate the use of the id because it suggests humans have some violent, selfish core that's only held back by what we think we're supposed to do. In reality, caring for others and sharing are every bit as central as every other impulse. You're suggesting this person has horrible impulses they are jsut barely holding back, while in reality it seems they want to play a game in a way you don't like.
No, I don't think activities performed between consenting participants are the same as activities performed against virtual non-consenting participants.
And I hate the use of the id because it suggests humans have some violent, selfish core that's only held back by what we think we're supposed to do.
I obviously don't believe this, as I have said that there is a unexamined darkness if a person's escapism expresses itself with the desire to be the bad guy. If there is catharsis in hurting the virtual innocent, in playing the despot, then the person should examine where these reactionary tendencies come from. If I believed all people's subliminal desires were as dark and violent, then I wouldn't have suggested there was something to be done about it.
they're not real and cannot be hurt. It's a virtual punching bag. And you don't know they haven;t thought about it. I've enjoyed dark power fantasies that disagree with how I choose to actually act. It's because I have a temper and constantly holding it back is frustrating. Yes it's a good thing to do, something I would choose to do even if there were never enforced consequences for not holding back, but watching an extreme of the opposite, releases of anger can be satisfying. Way more people enact their deep fascist beliefs through neighborhood watch associations and HOAs then by playing one fascist run of an RPG. be more worried about those which have real consequences.
Perhaps you can kill cops, racists, imperialists, etc. instead of the powerless in games? Also perhaps you can work on the source of that temper, understanding your feelings, and dealing with the causes instead of venting the symptoms on 'valid targets'?
Also, I definitely worry more about those with real consequences, I've never argued differently.
I have a gore fetish and i really like the idea of starring in a cartel video someday as the headless girl. I could be the first trans person in one of those.
Just kidding.
In reality i just like suffering, but it hasnt prevented me from being nice to people. I just have a legit problem where i have to remind myself to help them and not sit around enjoying their suffering. I have a strange content happy feelinv whenever someone cries, and the happiest day of work in my life was when a huge metal square (size of a car) landed an inch from my head where i was tightening nuts. I thought it was hilarious and everyone else was scared.
I did a lot of activism trying to help homeless people gain autonomy for themselves and the right to have a tent city. My ability to just not be bothered by human suffering is why i was volunteering there more than anyone else in the group of communists i was in at the time.
I am not opposed to violent games, because i do not view violence as being bad by itself. It's all about how you use violence .
And when it comes to how it affects people, the entire north american culture is enamoured with violence, but in the most reactionary and gory way possible. It's not just video games that cause this, but film, television, and the news, all exploit bleed and lead narratives. Do i judge people for playing these games? Most of the time no, depending on the game. Call of Duty is reactionary schlock, but it's effectively a triple aaa movie with a controller. You buy it because your friends buy it, because they've been playing them for years, and so on and so on. No different than getting the new Madden game every year (even though Call of Duty is inherently political, but this is not my focus at the moment).
But, if you were to play a game like Hearts of Iron IV, and immediately try a Hitler any% speedrun, i'm definitely going to raise my eyebrow. These types of games come with historical baggage, and your choice of luggage does show a little bit of how you think.
All in all, this is coming from a mostly North American cultural perspective, but the inherent desensitization of violence in ideology is definitely gross, and is therefore easily exploited. While a person who plays violent video games might not themselves be violent, they are more likely to view the acts that occur in real life as entertainment. The venn diagram of someone who prefers violence in their videogames, and the type of person to show you a war crime or cartel videogame on their phone out of the blue, is a circle. This, of course, is something i absolutely despise and have told off people before.
I hate the act of violence, but to throw off the chains of the oppressor cannot be done peacefully, as violence is needed to combat violence. These people, however, view it little more as a passive treat, knowing that living in their comfy home, far away from where violence is happening, they can sit there in their laz-e-boy chair and watch the latest news
Because theyre whining they're not allowed to simulate it in a way that doesn't make him uncomfortable or the bad guy, did you not read the post, how is that not obvious to you?
I understood it that they're complaining that the game is not realistic as an alternative history simulator, since in real life Hitler managed to establish a dictatorship, whereas the game makes it impossible.
That's not what he's complaining about, you can easily establish a fascist regime in the game, instead he's whining about the obvious in-game consequences of doing so, because in his head fascism is glorified and idealized so any attempt to simulate it accurately triggers him
Now why would a realistic simulation of fascism upset him? Maybe because his idea of fascism is fucked, which as everyone in this thread has pointed out, says alot about him
Why do you think someone is a Nazi in real life because they're trying to create a Nazi regime in a game? The entire point of games is to try things you wouldn't normally do…
This person is shitting their pants that fascism is not a viable ideology. Do they sound like someone who does not have a skin in the game to you?
What kind of heinous crimes are you simulating in your video games, buddy?
To be fair I kill cops in videogames all the time but don't currently advocate for it in real life.
That's self defense
That's not heinous
Ok, but this person's complaint isn't "fascism isn't making me win instantly" it's "I can't even make the country become fascist."
Yeah that's true. Didn't notice this at first.
One where you kill your own mother, then go into her womb and kill her heart, for example. Have you never played a violent game? It's pretty well studied that violence in video games doesn't lead to violence in real life.
You are decontextualising violence there. I can play a violent video game where I kill Nazis without much problem but I won't play a video game where I am a Nazi soldier fighting for Nazi Germany.
Even in Issac there is some justification to the whole scenario since the mother is abusive and not to mention the supernatural nature of the universe the game is set in. Would you play a video game where you psychotically beat up your warm, kind, lovely, caring mother for no moral reason? This is not just about trying it out once out of morbid curiosity. But trying it out over and over again and then complaining on an internet forum that the passerbys in the game are not letting you beat your lovely mother senseless.
Isaac isn't committing a crime, he's defending himself from his mother trying to kill him.
Alright, a better example: Minecraft, which doesn't force you to do anything, but it's common for players to enslave villagers and make them work in tiny spaces, steal their crops and sell them back to them, make animal farms where the animals can barely move, etc.
How is this a defense? "In this game I can do the totally unnecessary crimes capitalists do in real life, therefore I must." No, you don't have to fucking do it.
Well, all I'm going to say is I've played rimworld...
I make utopian anarchist paradises in RimWorld idk what the rest of you are doing in there
lesbian demon force feminization cults
Oh no! Where?
we've got cool hats
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Way back when, I made a device in Dwarf Fortress to burn the nerves off warriors slowly enough they wouldn't die of blood loss, so they would never feel pain in combat.
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it would be a very strange person to be both not a nazi and also very dedicated to making fascism work in a bibeo gaem, so it's sort of an occam's razor situation. Simplest explanation is, they're a fascist.
Yeah, i am disgusted by fascism and would never even think to play as one. You have to be willing to carry a little water for fascists to play as one, and at that point you're going to be sitting at their table.
I like playing as Italy in hearts of Iron. Its fun. I also like to ally with Ceasars Legion cus theyre evil.
I just feel gross and guilty when i do bad things in video games.
I feel extra good, especially when its mean. I sell Cassidy to the Van Graffs and feed Arcade to the White Glove Society every time.
Idk bud, sounds like you must have some real darkness lurking around in your head unexamined if your id shows itself by wanting to "play as the bad guy".
"some real darkness lurking in your head"
This is a "fps games cause school shootings" level of take.
FPS games don't cause school shootings, but I'm willing to bet proportionally more chuds play games like Manhunt, Kane & Lynch, the entire war shooter genre, etc. People look for escapism that conforms to their fantasies. So again, FPS games don't cause school shootings, but if a kid has the teachers and classmates turned into enemies in a video game, maybe be worried a little bit.
It's pretty clearly not, they're not suggesting the video game causes those dark thoughts. They're suggesting dark thoughts propel you into acting them out in video games.
Thank you. G*mers man, any criticism of there treats must be an inquisition. Whereas, in real life the "video games are evil" fanfare of the 90s-00s was at best a scapegoat to justify the government doing nothing to stop school shootings, and at worst an active advertising campaign to make rebellious kids feel badass because they bought an M rated game with lots of blood.
The id isn't real. It can be fun to play a role you don't in real life, because there aren't consequences like in real life, so you can enjoy the aesthetics or the satisfaction of some urges you can't and shouldn't in real life.
Literally what I'm talking about. I don't feel the urge to be a slaver who treats all women as pack animals, but that's what Caesar's Legion does in New Vegas.
Also, whether or not the id is literally real, it's effective communication to refer to the source of the urges you do admit we feel.
Do you also get upset about people doing BDSM because you don't want to choke your partner? This is a similar thing where someone is expressing an impulse in an appropriate space that would be dangerous in other contexts. If they get weird about it or take it to spaces where it is no longer safe by all means get upset, but while it is contained it doesn't matter to you. And I'm not saying "just let people enjoy things," because if someone is always playing the nazis that is concerning, but if they've done it once or twice I really don't think that means they're a wehrabo.
And I hate the use of the id because it suggests humans have some violent, selfish core that's only held back by what we think we're supposed to do. In reality, caring for others and sharing are every bit as central as every other impulse. You're suggesting this person has horrible impulses they are jsut barely holding back, while in reality it seems they want to play a game in a way you don't like.
No, I don't think activities performed between consenting participants are the same as activities performed against virtual non-consenting participants.
I obviously don't believe this, as I have said that there is a unexamined darkness if a person's escapism expresses itself with the desire to be the bad guy. If there is catharsis in hurting the virtual innocent, in playing the despot, then the person should examine where these reactionary tendencies come from. If I believed all people's subliminal desires were as dark and violent, then I wouldn't have suggested there was something to be done about it.
they're not real and cannot be hurt. It's a virtual punching bag. And you don't know they haven;t thought about it. I've enjoyed dark power fantasies that disagree with how I choose to actually act. It's because I have a temper and constantly holding it back is frustrating. Yes it's a good thing to do, something I would choose to do even if there were never enforced consequences for not holding back, but watching an extreme of the opposite, releases of anger can be satisfying. Way more people enact their deep fascist beliefs through neighborhood watch associations and HOAs then by playing one fascist run of an RPG. be more worried about those which have real consequences.
Perhaps you can kill cops, racists, imperialists, etc. instead of the powerless in games? Also perhaps you can work on the source of that temper, understanding your feelings, and dealing with the causes instead of venting the symptoms on 'valid targets'?
Also, I definitely worry more about those with real consequences, I've never argued differently.
I have a gore fetish and i really like the idea of starring in a cartel video someday as the headless girl. I could be the first trans person in one of those.
Just kidding.
In reality i just like suffering, but it hasnt prevented me from being nice to people. I just have a legit problem where i have to remind myself to help them and not sit around enjoying their suffering. I have a strange content happy feelinv whenever someone cries, and the happiest day of work in my life was when a huge metal square (size of a car) landed an inch from my head where i was tightening nuts. I thought it was hilarious and everyone else was scared.
I did a lot of activism trying to help homeless people gain autonomy for themselves and the right to have a tent city. My ability to just not be bothered by human suffering is why i was volunteering there more than anyone else in the group of communists i was in at the time.
Are you also opposed to violent games because violence is disgusing? Do you think people who play violent games are violent in real life?
I am not opposed to violent games, because i do not view violence as being bad by itself. It's all about how you use violence
.
And when it comes to how it affects people, the entire north american culture is enamoured with violence, but in the most reactionary and gory way possible. It's not just video games that cause this, but film, television, and the news, all exploit bleed and lead narratives. Do i judge people for playing these games? Most of the time no, depending on the game. Call of Duty is reactionary schlock, but it's effectively a triple aaa movie with a controller. You buy it because your friends buy it, because they've been playing them for years, and so on and so on. No different than getting the new Madden game every year (even though Call of Duty is inherently political, but this is not my focus at the moment).
But, if you were to play a game like Hearts of Iron IV, and immediately try a Hitler any% speedrun, i'm definitely going to raise my eyebrow. These types of games come with historical baggage, and your choice of luggage does show a little bit of how you think.
All in all, this is coming from a mostly North American cultural perspective, but the inherent desensitization of violence in ideology is definitely gross, and is therefore easily exploited. While a person who plays violent video games might not themselves be violent, they are more likely to view the acts that occur in real life as entertainment. The venn diagram of someone who prefers violence in their videogames, and the type of person to show you a war crime or cartel videogame on their phone out of the blue, is a circle. This, of course, is something i absolutely despise and have told off people before.
I hate the act of violence, but to throw off the chains of the oppressor cannot be done peacefully, as violence is needed to combat violence. These people, however, view it little more as a passive treat, knowing that living in their comfy home, far away from where violence is happening, they can sit there in their laz-e-boy chair and watch the latest news
Because theyre whining they're not allowed to simulate it in a way that doesn't make him uncomfortable or the bad guy, did you not read the post, how is that not obvious to you?
I understood it that they're complaining that the game is not realistic as an alternative history simulator, since in real life Hitler managed to establish a dictatorship, whereas the game makes it impossible.
That's not what he's complaining about, you can easily establish a fascist regime in the game, instead he's whining about the obvious in-game consequences of doing so, because in his head fascism is glorified and idealized so any attempt to simulate it accurately triggers him
Now why would a realistic simulation of fascism upset him? Maybe because his idea of fascism is fucked, which as everyone in this thread has pointed out, says alot about him