To be fair, liberals resisting fascism does sound pretty unrealistic.
Implementing fascism as a mechanic only for it to be unsustainable gameplaywise is a good bit tbh
Somewhat related, in Civ 4, depending on the ideology you choose, you get a specific related wonder to build
When you pick "fascism", the wonder is Mt. Rushmore
It always was lib. The very premise and core mechanics have liberal ideology baked into it. Still play it though....
Civ IV also had Mao and Stalin in it and I often wonder how they got away with all that
I mean, the "Civilopedia" entries for both is very lib, so that's probably part of it. The numbers they cite in Civ IV are ~20 million deaths under Mao as well as claiming "up to 10 million dead" in an "engineered famine" under Stalin. In an interview, the original creators said they primarily did all of their research in the children's section of the library, so that's probably at least part of the reason for The Black Book of Communism-esque figures. Thankfully, despite eating enough of an anti-communist buffet for an entire kindergarten, they managed to have just enough sense not to put Hitler in any of the games to my knowledge. Even in the baked in WW2 mod for Civ IV, they replaced him in with Franz von Papen(still a fascist piece of shit ofc, but way less name recognition).
edit: this is just the tip of the iceberg really. reading the Civilopedia after getting back into Civ IV has given me psychic harm. The Stalin section is thoroughly packed to the brim with all of the dumb tropes we've gotten used to debunking. I'd make a separate post about it if I could find the text files to quote more easily.
God I had no idea it was that bad. Just saw them in the game and thought oh that's cool.
Still makes me wonder though if they really truly believe that Stalin and Mao are 500 gazillion dead why put them in the game?? Its so baffling
Making sure all of my production goes into tanks instead of tractors, and shells instead of shovels, and wondering why my people are starving
Victoria 3 isn't good at modeling the effects of imperialism on capitalist political economy (i.e., development of a nationalist labor aristocracy & class collaborationist social democrats) as well as the conditions that give rise to fascism.
But also lol.
Whoah hold up. Check their post history, OP.
Think about this the proletariat produces labor. Labor is the driving factor of the economy nothing is produced without it. If the prolatariat wanted to cripple the capitalist system it could, if all the workers stood up and even just striked the facade would fall, the military can't run, the CIA can't run, the government can't run, the world can't with without labor becuase the world is run via labor.
and
Alright bare bones a socialist is someone who beleives that the means of production (litterally anything used to make stuff) should be controlled and owned by the workers. In out current capitalist society this means of production is reffered to as "private property." A socialist believes that only by abolishing this private property (not to confused with "personal property like toothbrush or house) and wage labor (the general concept of working a job with a boss and capitalist etc.) can the proletariat be freed from the clutches of capitol. Of course there is nuance to any awnser and between these sentences is thousands of pages of theory but the underlying prinicipals are the same. If you are getting into socialism I reccomend the Youtube channels Second Thought and Hakim.
and
Are we talking about "leftwing" (liberals) or leftwing (socialism) I can't tell
idk but I'm pretty sure they're "playing as a fascist" in that "fascism in this game is a disaster" thread, as well.
Yeah most of their posts in the last year have been in Socialism subreddits. I don't think this poster is a fascist lol
Yeah it’s not an inherently fascist take to want a game that simulates running a country to allow a fascist play through to be viable. The people that complain about the fascist power level and real fascists are mostly the same, but not by definition.
Speaking of games, it's kinda sad that zoomers and their fash motivations are on the same level as Team Flare's motivation. "Everyone sucks except for us. So we need to kill everyone for the horrible crime of not being as awesome as us."
You could even argue Elongated Muskrat is a real life Lysandre. Both tech bros that want to genocide "ze undesirables". 4chan, much like team flare, also want a mass extermination of anyone who dares to not be perfect in every conceivable way. Hell, one of their litmus tests for worth is wealth, and rich people are one of the ONLY groups you can't get away with mocking on the internet (for being of their class and nothing else).
imagine publicly admitting that you're less good at establishing fascism than the historical nazis
That does sound off. The problem with fascism isn't that it's hard to achieve. It's that fascism itself is a dogshit ideology for dogshit people.
For sure you can implement fascism with a huge population of liberals
"Haha, hey guise, can you help me with my fascism? I don't really LIKE fascism, haha...just for the record, ya know? But yeah if you could help me be a fascist, that'd be swell."
The original poster clearly is upset that, when playing as a fascist, the game shits upon him.
I do feel Disco Elysium is quite different, as unlike most games it doesn't glorify your choices. Most games aren't like that though, you can play a human-first fascist-lite in Mass Effect and still save the universe and receive oodles of praise, for instance.
Oh god Mass Effect 1 renegade was like off the rails
The later games weren't as bad but when doing a renegade run you really just spent most of your time in 1 hoping Shep doesn't say anything too racist
: "Buh....gommie bad and murica gud! DiDnT yOu LeArN tHaT iN hIgH sChOoL!?!?!"
Why do you think someone is a Nazi in real life because they're trying to create a Nazi regime in a game? The entire point of games is to try things you wouldn't normally do…
This person is shitting their pants that fascism is not a viable ideology. Do they sound like someone who does not have a skin in the game to you?
The entire point of games is to try things you wouldn't normally do…
What kind of heinous crimes are you simulating in your video games, buddy?
logging in to the pedophile simulator because video games are where you try things you normally wouldn't doWhat kind of heinous crimes are you simulating in your video games, buddy?
To be fair I kill cops in videogames all the time but don't currently advocate for it in real life.
Ok, but this person's complaint isn't "fascism isn't making me win instantly" it's "I can't even make the country become fascist."
What kind of heinous crimes are you simulating in your video games, buddy?
One where you kill your own mother, then go into her womb and kill her heart, for example. Have you never played a violent game? It's pretty well studied that violence in video games doesn't lead to violence in real life.
You are decontextualising violence there. I can play a violent video game where I kill Nazis without much problem but I won't play a video game where I am a Nazi soldier fighting for Nazi Germany.
Even in Issac there is some justification to the whole scenario since the mother is abusive and not to mention the supernatural nature of the universe the game is set in. Would you play a video game where you psychotically beat up your warm, kind, lovely, caring mother for no moral reason? This is not just about trying it out once out of morbid curiosity. But trying it out over and over again and then complaining on an internet forum that the passerbys in the game are not letting you beat your lovely mother senseless.
Isaac isn't committing a crime, he's defending himself from his mother trying to kill him.
Alright, a better example: Minecraft, which doesn't force you to do anything, but it's common for players to enslave villagers and make them work in tiny spaces, steal their crops and sell them back to them, make animal farms where the animals can barely move, etc.
How is this a defense? "In this game I can do the totally unnecessary crimes capitalists do in real life, therefore I must." No, you don't have to fucking do it.
I make utopian anarchist paradises in RimWorld idk what the rest of you are doing in there
Way back when, I made a device in Dwarf Fortress to burn the nerves off warriors slowly enough they wouldn't die of blood loss, so they would never feel pain in combat.
it would be a very strange person to be both not a nazi and also very dedicated to making fascism work in a bibeo gaem, so it's sort of an occam's razor situation. Simplest explanation is, they're a fascist.
Yeah, i am disgusted by fascism and would never even think to play as one. You have to be willing to carry a little water for fascists to play as one, and at that point you're going to be sitting at their table.
I like playing as Italy in hearts of Iron. Its fun. I also like to ally with Ceasars Legion cus theyre evil.
I just feel gross and guilty when i do bad things in video games.
I feel extra good, especially when its mean. I sell Cassidy to the Van Graffs and feed Arcade to the White Glove Society every time.
Idk bud, sounds like you must have some real darkness lurking around in your head unexamined if your id shows itself by wanting to "play as the bad guy".
"some real darkness lurking in your head"
This is a "fps games cause school shootings" level of take.
FPS games don't cause school shootings, but I'm willing to bet proportionally more chuds play games like Manhunt, Kane & Lynch, the entire war shooter genre, etc. People look for escapism that conforms to their fantasies. So again, FPS games don't cause school shootings, but if a kid has the teachers and classmates turned into enemies in a video game, maybe be worried a little bit.
It's pretty clearly not, they're not suggesting the video game causes those dark thoughts. They're suggesting dark thoughts propel you into acting them out in video games.
Thank you. G*mers man, any criticism of there treats must be an inquisition. Whereas, in real life the "video games are evil" fanfare of the 90s-00s was at best a scapegoat to justify the government doing nothing to stop school shootings, and at worst an active advertising campaign to make rebellious kids feel badass because they bought an M rated game with lots of blood.
The id isn't real. It can be fun to play a role you don't in real life, because there aren't consequences like in real life, so you can enjoy the aesthetics or the satisfaction of some urges you can't and shouldn't in real life.
urges
Literally what I'm talking about. I don't feel the urge to be a slaver who treats all women as pack animals, but that's what Caesar's Legion does in New Vegas.
Also, whether or not the id is literally real, it's effective communication to refer to the source of the urges you do admit we feel.
Do you also get upset about people doing BDSM because you don't want to choke your partner? This is a similar thing where someone is expressing an impulse in an appropriate space that would be dangerous in other contexts. If they get weird about it or take it to spaces where it is no longer safe by all means get upset, but while it is contained it doesn't matter to you. And I'm not saying "just let people enjoy things," because if someone is always playing the nazis that is concerning, but if they've done it once or twice I really don't think that means they're a wehrabo.
And I hate the use of the id because it suggests humans have some violent, selfish core that's only held back by what we think we're supposed to do. In reality, caring for others and sharing are every bit as central as every other impulse. You're suggesting this person has horrible impulses they are jsut barely holding back, while in reality it seems they want to play a game in a way you don't like.
No, I don't think activities performed between consenting participants are the same as activities performed against virtual non-consenting participants.
And I hate the use of the id because it suggests humans have some violent, selfish core that's only held back by what we think we're supposed to do.
I obviously don't believe this, as I have said that there is a unexamined darkness if a person's escapism expresses itself with the desire to be the bad guy. If there is catharsis in hurting the virtual innocent, in playing the despot, then the person should examine where these reactionary tendencies come from. If I believed all people's subliminal desires were as dark and violent, then I wouldn't have suggested there was something to be done about it.
participants
they're not real and cannot be hurt. It's a virtual punching bag. And you don't know they haven;t thought about it. I've enjoyed dark power fantasies that disagree with how I choose to actually act. It's because I have a temper and constantly holding it back is frustrating. Yes it's a good thing to do, something I would choose to do even if there were never enforced consequences for not holding back, but watching an extreme of the opposite, releases of anger can be satisfying. Way more people enact their deep fascist beliefs through neighborhood watch associations and HOAs then by playing one fascist run of an RPG. be more worried about those which have real consequences.
Perhaps you can kill cops, racists, imperialists, etc. instead of the powerless in games? Also perhaps you can work on the source of that temper, understanding your feelings, and dealing with the causes instead of venting the symptoms on 'valid targets'?
Also, I definitely worry more about those with real consequences, I've never argued differently.
I have a gore fetish and i really like the idea of starring in a cartel video someday as the headless girl. I could be the first trans person in one of those.
Just kidding.
In reality i just like suffering, but it hasnt prevented me from being nice to people. I just have a legit problem where i have to remind myself to help them and not sit around enjoying their suffering. I have a strange content happy feelinv whenever someone cries, and the happiest day of work in my life was when a huge metal square (size of a car) landed an inch from my head where i was tightening nuts. I thought it was hilarious and everyone else was scared.
I did a lot of activism trying to help homeless people gain autonomy for themselves and the right to have a tent city. My ability to just not be bothered by human suffering is why i was volunteering there more than anyone else in the group of communists i was in at the time.
Are you also opposed to violent games because violence is disgusing? Do you think people who play violent games are violent in real life?
I am not opposed to violent games, because i do not view violence as being bad by itself. It's all about how you use violence
.And when it comes to how it affects people, the entire north american culture is enamoured with violence, but in the most reactionary and gory way possible. It's not just video games that cause this, but film, television, and the news, all exploit bleed and lead narratives. Do i judge people for playing these games? Most of the time no, depending on the game. Call of Duty is reactionary schlock, but it's effectively a triple aaa movie with a controller. You buy it because your friends buy it, because they've been playing them for years, and so on and so on. No different than getting the new Madden game every year (even though Call of Duty is inherently political, but this is not my focus at the moment).
But, if you were to play a game like Hearts of Iron IV, and immediately try a Hitler any% speedrun, i'm definitely going to raise my eyebrow. These types of games come with historical baggage, and your choice of luggage does show a little bit of how you think.
All in all, this is coming from a mostly North American cultural perspective, but the inherent desensitization of violence in ideology is definitely gross, and is therefore easily exploited. While a person who plays violent video games might not themselves be violent, they are more likely to view the acts that occur in real life as entertainment. The venn diagram of someone who prefers violence in their videogames, and the type of person to show you a war crime or cartel videogame on their phone out of the blue, is a circle. This, of course, is something i absolutely despise and have told off people before.
I hate the act of violence, but to throw off the chains of the oppressor cannot be done peacefully, as violence is needed to combat violence. These people, however, view it little more as a passive treat, knowing that living in their comfy home, far away from where violence is happening, they can sit there in their laz-e-boy chair and watch the latest news
Because theyre whining they're not allowed to simulate it in a way that doesn't make him uncomfortable or the bad guy, did you not read the post, how is that not obvious to you?
I understood it that they're complaining that the game is not realistic as an alternative history simulator, since in real life Hitler managed to establish a dictatorship, whereas the game makes it impossible.
That's not what he's complaining about, you can easily establish a fascist regime in the game, instead he's whining about the obvious in-game consequences of doing so, because in his head fascism is glorified and idealized so any attempt to simulate it accurately triggers him
Now why would a realistic simulation of fascism upset him? Maybe because his idea of fascism is fucked, which as everyone in this thread has pointed out, says alot about him
yeah you want to blame mussolini for coming up with a dumbass ideology.
