"This is how the MAGACOMMUNISTS work as the kayfabe opposition of the Destiny/Vaush twitch streamer psyops. They act like the characatures of "tankies" created in a Democratic Party lab would to sheepdog the compatible left back into the democrats & communists into the far right."
i mean, Haz does seem like a fed or at least an asset. why now? why are patsocs getting this huge upswing now? the american public who are susceptible to class consciousness are less racist, homophobic, and transphobic as they’ve ever been. the rabid bigots are petit bourgeoisie and labor aristocrats. the underclasses interact with marginalized people constantly and are seeing that they are people just like them. why are patsocs now bigger than they’ve been in decades?
Because a socially rightwing capitalist state (russia) is leading the global movement into the multipolar world. The main actor on the world stage doing good things for the people of the world outside the West is a conservative backed into a corner by the US. That's why patsocs have such power right now, because people uneducated in politics are looking around and seeing Putin kicking ass and making the worst people on Earth cry and transforming world politics and global balances of power.
I wish it was China doing it instead, but honestly they're just too big and complacent and unwilling to take risks.
wdym? China is providing an alternative to western loans to the global south. they are the impromptu leader of the largest economic union in the world. the progressive liberals are overwhelmingly pro Ukraine to the point of denying Ukrainian atrocities. centrist libs are whitewashing these atrocities. conservative libs are cheering on these atrocities. only the fascists and fascist adjacent patsocs are uncritically supporting Russia. if the US offered a military alliance to Taiwan do you think China would do nothing in response? yes, Russia was backed into a corner, but they aren’t leading the charge into multipolarity
I think China also just has less urgency with this sort of thing, if you let the numbers play out the outcome keeps improving from their perspective. Right now they would take huge losses in a confrontation and possibly lose outright if it came to that. 10 years ago it would have been worse, they've dramatically grown their capabilities in the interim while the US has more or less stalled. How will the math look 10 years from now? What's the point of being confrontational if the risk is already too great for the US to try anything, and keeps increasing by the day?
i agree with this analysis with the exception that China has a very low chance of losing a direct confrontation with the US now. the tech gap is huge rn in China’s favor and the only “advantage” the US still has (larger surface warfare ships) will likely turn out to actually be a disadvantage due to advances in missile technology. but yeah, it’s smart for them to wait for the US to make the first move
You do realize not everyone on earth lives in the US right? This is a very US-centric online understanding of political groups. Normal non-fascist “conservatives” outside the west all support Russia, and I’m talking about boring conservatives like Indian diplomats and Alexander Mercouris and Mersheimer. Pretty much everyone outside the west, both conservative and leftist, supports Russia. It’s only Liberal-Fascists that support Ukraine, the western educated “creative” classes that form the backbone of comprador governments.
I think your understanding is basically inverted from reality, and American fascists support Ukraine not Russia. All Communists in the west have a duty to critically support Russia, and many radlibs and Ukraine freaks misperceive this as uncritical support and accuse communists of being “Patsocs” when they are just communists. I think you’ve been hanging around these people too often because you have internalized the radlib framing
we’re talking abt US politics. the subject of the post is maga communists and the democratic party. yeah, you can classify most US libs as fascist, but the Q anon MAGA types (and many more typical republicans) want to pivot away from Ukraine and focus on China and Mexico. i maintain critical support for Russia which means i don’t approve of their capitalist economic structure or their bigotry. patsocs uncritically support Russia, think bigotry is good, and sometimes think Russia is still socialist. yes, this is a very online discussion, but that’s because this modern patsoc movement is very online, which is why i think its an op
If it's such an online movement, how do you know you're even talking to Americans for the most part outside of obvious fed figures like Haz? Random twitter accounts or whatever are likely just anti-American people from poor nations.
just realize a lot of the people online who are slightly conservative who go around shitting on Ukraine aren't "nazbols" or "pat socs" they are just normal people from Africa, India and the Middle East. It's the height of chauvinism to assert they're all American nazis actually when they're just normal people who have the politics you would expect based on their nation having vague anti-imperialist views. The actual American Nazis support Ukraine, as I've re-iterated multiple times. Like the hardcore neo-nazis support Ukraine, in addition to the radlibs and libs and neocons.
I hate to break it to you, but these random anti-american chuds are more on our side than the "progressive liberals" from western nations. The primary contradiction is imperialism.
yeah, i guess i didn’t think of the possibility that “American Marxist-Leninist” on twitter was actually Ugandan
I'm not saying patsoc online americans don't exist, I'm saying you have no way to distinguish between them and actual anti-american people from poor nations unless they self-identify (most of them don't). I also believe the "threat" of "patsocs" is much overstated and played up by the same folks who brought us fears about "bernie bros" and "tankies" and "brocialists". I just don't give a fuck about the handwringing fears that radlibs have about the latest tiny online reactionary fad of the day. Actual bonafide fascists control both major parties and the American state is a fascist war machine, I really don't give a fuck about a 0.1% of the population saying stupid anti-American things online.
i find them easy to identify. just look for “🦍☀️” or signifiers of american patriotism/chauvinism
Hilariously they are less chauvinistic than Berniecrats, because they consistently have the correct anti-imperialist line against America. Social-chauvinism is used to describe leftie people who are imperialist, these people are the exact opposite of that. It's the radlibs who are the chauvinists. This criticism falls so flat when the ones criticizing them are calling for more funds to Ukraine and to boost the American war machine to destroy America's enemies for cheap.
The criticisms that work against them have to be principled Marxist analysis since that’s where they are off. Liberals and radlibs are incapable of providing this critique.
Go on Twitter or Reddit and search “patsoc” and see who’s criticizing them. It’s not principled communists or MLs for the most part, it’s squishy Bernie leftists, Breadtubers and Ukraine flag bios who also hate tankies. I’m not going to align with them and join in their narrative against what I think is making a mountain out of a molehill at best, and chauvinism against the poor nations of the world at worst. If the American Patsocs are feds made to distract and divide us, the best strategy isn’t to attack them alongside the berniecrats but to simply ignore them.
They are not. Berniecrats are better than this filth. If you are actively racist or transphobic, especially against Indigenous people, and have that racism based specifically on Americanism, then that is pretty chauvinistic to me.
Berniecrats support world war against Russia and are imperialists who support the fourth Reich. No they are not better unless you are a social imperialist
You're conflating.
Berniecrats do not support the mass extermination of trans and neurodivergent people. They do not support genocidal policies against Indigenous peoples.
Berniecrats support the murder of tens of millions of people throughout the world because they support NATO. They support the murder of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian conscripts and want more to be pushed into the grinder. They support the genocide of Palestinians because they support NATO. They support the destruction of Syria, Libya and Honduras because they support NATO.
You just don’t care about people dying to empire
It is not just an "online movement."
They've taken over real organizations. And in just a matter of a few years since their debut.
Do not underestimate them.
Taking over what organizations from who? I’ve seen someone say the CPUSA, but wasn’t the accepted knowledge of this org that it was filled with socially reactionary boomers and feds anyway? So more of the same then and not really a “take over”
These are the same talking points that PatSocs use to infiltrate an org, such as the CPUSA, and take it over. They've gone into the org to harass Indigenous members and trans members multiple times.
Did you read what I said? CPUSA was a defunct shell of a party filled only with reactionary boomers and feds. So how does this “takeover” change anything? Goes from social reactionary to social reactionary? Fed to fed?
I don’t know of these examples you are saying of harassing, that’s obviously terrible and to be condemned to the extent it is occurring if it’s actual harassment over these traits. Do you have examples of this? Just sounds like CPUSA isn’t a good party but idk I’m not involved in it.
Does not compute
More idealist flattening of the world, I get so tired of you people doing this. Learn what words mean. Conservatives in non-imperialist nations have been part of liberatory and de-colonial movements. An imperial core conservative is not the same as a conservative in a colonized nation.
Unless you're gay, trans, a woman, a member of the working class, a religious minority...
I just explained how conservatives in colonized nations have participated in revolutions and de-colonial movements. Do you believe these were bad for gay, trans, women, working class people and religious minorities?
Did you know the people protecting religious minorities in the Middle East are Iran and Syria (conservatives), while it's the western Liberal proxies that are discriminating and fascistic (Israel, ISIS, Turkey)? Everything is not so simple as your idealism lets you imagine
Iran literally has a state policy of killing atheists
Yet their proxies have protected secular states, stopped jihadists from doing ethnic cleansing against christians, kurds and shia & resisted the genocide of the palestinians. Iran is still overwhelmingly a positive force in the middle east and they are conservatives, my point stands even if you can nitpick you can't address the world historical reality
Is Hezbollah fascist? How about Hamas?
They support torturing and killing LGBT people, so yes, they're fascists. Less odious than the fascist American empire and therefore worth supporting at the moment because they have neither the means nor the project to economically subjugate the world for slave labor and raw materials, but to an LGBT person in their sphere the material difference is the dying in a drone strike vs. dying in an extermination camp.
Removed by mod
I said I support them in their struggle against the American empire, so I'm not sure why you're calling me a chauvinist.
You called Hezbollah fucking fascist. You are an American child and more of a fascist than any of them. They stand up to and oppose Zionism and Jihadism every day of their lives and actually save people. SHUT THE FUCK UP AMERICAN. They don't build concentration camps, they are trying to destroy the world's largest ones in West Bank and Gaza. You are so insanely chauvinistic and narrow-minded. You don't know anything about Hezbollah.
Do you think it's a coincidence that the Third Reich had the same policies toward gay people or do you think that perhaps there's an underlying common cause there
You live in the fourth Reich that has killed tens of millions of people. You do not see the big picture at all. You are so narrow minded, you have blinders on
Your unwillingness to answer my question tells me all I need to know. I'm done here.
I'm sorry. No, no, no. Stop turning the tables. Do not just call someone names like that.
Do you think Palestinians are fascist because they are socially conservative? Don’t all fascists deserve the wall?
This is where your radliberalism leads.
Do not call people names or accuse them of things wrongfully.
Palestinians are not "socially conservative" compared to other nationalities.
I will call chauvinists and liberals by their name. If they find it to be pejorative, they should change their chauvinist opinions
Palestinians are socially conservative compared to breadtube online western leftists. That makes them fascists, as we saw above. And since all fascists go against the wall… we see where your chauvinism leads
Oh I know! Let’s set up a filtration system where we only liberate the Palestinians who pass our purity tests and the “fascist” ones get sent to Israel to deal with amirite fellow progressives?
They are not. You never made that distinction. Many protests and actions have been led by trans folk within Palestine, such as more recently. Stop accusing others of chauvinism.
Palestinians pass your purity test levels due to some story about trans people in Palestine you skimmed once, so they are permitted to exist. Otherwise we would slaughter those fascists!! Critical support to Israel in spreading western progressive values!
You're being incredibly offensive and outrageous right now. Stop insulting others with stuff that's "fighting words." I never even said what you're saying.
I hope I offend chauvinists
PatSocs are indeed existent. Jackson Hinkle and Caleb Maupin exist and they are not being supported solely because they support Russia.
There are many communists that support Russia critically without being PatSocs whatsoever.
PatSocs are a huge problem so don't act like the problem is that Russia is kicking ass and anyone who supports them are misleadingly labled as "PatSocs."
If I indeed have you right.