"This is how the MAGACOMMUNISTS work as the kayfabe opposition of the Destiny/Vaush twitch streamer psyops. They act like the characatures of "tankies" created in a Democratic Party lab would to sheepdog the compatible left back into the democrats & communists into the far right."
i mean, Haz does seem like a fed or at least an asset. why now? why are patsocs getting this huge upswing now? the american public who are susceptible to class consciousness are less racist, homophobic, and transphobic as they’ve ever been. the rabid bigots are petit bourgeoisie and labor aristocrats. the underclasses interact with marginalized people constantly and are seeing that they are people just like them. why are patsocs now bigger than they’ve been in decades?
why are patsocs now bigger than they’ve been in decades?
Because a socially rightwing capitalist state (russia) is leading the global movement into the multipolar world. The main actor on the world stage doing good things for the people of the world outside the West is a conservative backed into a corner by the US. That's why patsocs have such power right now, because people uneducated in politics are looking around and seeing Putin kicking ass and making the worst people on Earth cry and transforming world politics and global balances of power.
I wish it was China doing it instead, but honestly they're just too big and complacent and unwilling to take risks.
wdym? China is providing an alternative to western loans to the global south. they are the impromptu leader of the largest economic union in the world. the progressive liberals are overwhelmingly pro Ukraine to the point of denying Ukrainian atrocities. centrist libs are whitewashing these atrocities. conservative libs are cheering on these atrocities. only the fascists and fascist adjacent patsocs are uncritically supporting Russia. if the US offered a military alliance to Taiwan do you think China would do nothing in response? yes, Russia was backed into a corner, but they aren’t leading the charge into multipolarity
only the fascists and fascist adjacent patsocs are uncritically supporting Russia
You do realize not everyone on earth lives in the US right? This is a very US-centric online understanding of political groups. Normal non-fascist “conservatives” outside the west all support Russia, and I’m talking about boring conservatives like Indian diplomats and Alexander Mercouris and Mersheimer. Pretty much everyone outside the west, both conservative and leftist, supports Russia. It’s only Liberal-Fascists that support Ukraine, the western educated “creative” classes that form the backbone of comprador governments.
I think your understanding is basically inverted from reality, and American fascists support Ukraine not Russia. All Communists in the west have a duty to critically support Russia, and many radlibs and Ukraine freaks misperceive this as uncritical support and accuse communists of being “Patsocs” when they are just communists. I think you’ve been hanging around these people too often because you have internalized the radlib framing
we’re talking abt US politics. the subject of the post is maga communists and the democratic party. yeah, you can classify most US libs as fascist, but the Q anon MAGA types (and many more typical republicans) want to pivot away from Ukraine and focus on China and Mexico. i maintain critical support for Russia which means i don’t approve of their capitalist economic structure or their bigotry. patsocs uncritically support Russia, think bigotry is good, and sometimes think Russia is still socialist. yes, this is a very online discussion, but that’s because this modern patsoc movement is very online, which is why i think its an op
If it's such an online movement, how do you know you're even talking to Americans for the most part outside of obvious fed figures like Haz? Random twitter accounts or whatever are likely just anti-American people from poor nations.
just realize a lot of the people online who are slightly conservative who go around shitting on Ukraine aren't "nazbols" or "pat socs" they are just normal people from Africa, India and the Middle East. It's the height of chauvinism to assert they're all American nazis actually when they're just normal people who have the politics you would expect based on their nation having vague anti-imperialist views. The actual American Nazis support Ukraine, as I've re-iterated multiple times. Like the hardcore neo-nazis support Ukraine, in addition to the radlibs and libs and neocons.
I hate to break it to you, but these random anti-american chuds are more on our side than the "progressive liberals" from western nations. The primary contradiction is imperialism.
yeah, i guess i didn’t think of the possibility that “American Marxist-Leninist” on twitter was actually Ugandan
I'm not saying patsoc online americans don't exist, I'm saying you have no way to distinguish between them and actual anti-american people from poor nations unless they self-identify (most of them don't). I also believe the "threat" of "patsocs" is much overstated and played up by the same folks who brought us fears about "bernie bros" and "tankies" and "brocialists". I just don't give a fuck about the handwringing fears that radlibs have about the latest tiny online reactionary fad of the day. Actual bonafide fascists control both major parties and the American state is a fascist war machine, I really don't give a fuck about a 0.1% of the population saying stupid anti-American things online.
i find them easy to identify. just look for “🦍☀️” or signifiers of american patriotism/chauvinism
Hilariously they are less chauvinistic than Berniecrats, because they consistently have the correct anti-imperialist line against America. Social-chauvinism is used to describe leftie people who are imperialist, these people are the exact opposite of that. It's the radlibs who are the chauvinists. This criticism falls so flat when the ones criticizing them are calling for more funds to Ukraine and to boost the American war machine to destroy America's enemies for cheap.
The criticisms that work against them have to be principled Marxist analysis since that’s where they are off. Liberals and radlibs are incapable of providing this critique.
Go on Twitter or Reddit and search “patsoc” and see who’s criticizing them. It’s not principled communists or MLs for the most part, it’s squishy Bernie leftists, Breadtubers and Ukraine flag bios who also hate tankies. I’m not going to align with them and join in their narrative against what I think is making a mountain out of a molehill at best, and chauvinism against the poor nations of the world at worst. If the American Patsocs are feds made to distract and divide us, the best strategy isn’t to attack them alongside the berniecrats but to simply ignore them.
They are not. Berniecrats are better than this filth. If you are actively racist or transphobic, especially against Indigenous people, and have that racism based specifically on Americanism, then that is pretty chauvinistic to me.
Berniecrats support world war against Russia and are imperialists who support the fourth Reich. No they are not better unless you are a social imperialist
You're conflating.
Berniecrats do not support the mass extermination of trans and neurodivergent people. They do not support genocidal policies against Indigenous peoples.
Berniecrats support the murder of tens of millions of people throughout the world because they support NATO. They support the murder of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian conscripts and want more to be pushed into the grinder. They support the genocide of Palestinians because they support NATO. They support the destruction of Syria, Libya and Honduras because they support NATO.
You just don’t care about people dying to empire
It is not just an "online movement."
They've taken over real organizations. And in just a matter of a few years since their debut.
Do not underestimate them.
Taking over what organizations from who? I’ve seen someone say the CPUSA, but wasn’t the accepted knowledge of this org that it was filled with socially reactionary boomers and feds anyway? So more of the same then and not really a “take over”
These are the same talking points that PatSocs use to infiltrate an org, such as the CPUSA, and take it over. They've gone into the org to harass Indigenous members and trans members multiple times.
Did you read what I said? CPUSA was a defunct shell of a party filled only with reactionary boomers and feds. So how does this “takeover” change anything? Goes from social reactionary to social reactionary? Fed to fed?
I don’t know of these examples you are saying of harassing, that’s obviously terrible and to be condemned to the extent it is occurring if it’s actual harassment over these traits. Do you have examples of this? Just sounds like CPUSA isn’t a good party but idk I’m not involved in it.
More idealist flattening of the world, I get so tired of you people doing this. Learn what words mean. Conservatives in non-imperialist nations have been part of liberatory and de-colonial movements. An imperial core conservative is not the same as a conservative in a colonized nation.
An imperial core conservative is not the same as a conservative in a colonized nation.
Unless you're gay, trans, a woman, a member of the working class, a religious minority...
I just explained how conservatives in colonized nations have participated in revolutions and de-colonial movements. Do you believe these were bad for gay, trans, women, working class people and religious minorities?
Did you know the people protecting religious minorities in the Middle East are Iran and Syria (conservatives), while it's the western Liberal proxies that are discriminating and fascistic (Israel, ISIS, Turkey)? Everything is not so simple as your idealism lets you imagine
the people protecting religious minorities in the Middle East are Iran
Iran literally has a state policy of killing atheists
Yet their proxies have protected secular states, stopped jihadists from doing ethnic cleansing against christians, kurds and shia & resisted the genocide of the palestinians. Iran is still overwhelmingly a positive force in the middle east and they are conservatives, my point stands even if you can nitpick you can't address the world historical reality
They support torturing and killing LGBT people, so yes, they're fascists. Less odious than the fascist American empire and therefore worth supporting at the moment because they have neither the means nor the project to economically subjugate the world for slave labor and raw materials, but to an LGBT person in their sphere the material difference is the dying in a drone strike vs. dying in an extermination camp.
I said I support them in their struggle against the American empire, so I'm not sure why you're calling me a chauvinist.
You called Hezbollah fucking fascist. You are an American child and more of a fascist than any of them. They stand up to and oppose Zionism and Jihadism every day of their lives and actually save people. SHUT THE FUCK UP AMERICAN. They don't build concentration camps, they are trying to destroy the world's largest ones in West Bank and Gaza. You are so insanely chauvinistic and narrow-minded. You don't know anything about Hezbollah.
Do you think it's a coincidence that the Third Reich had the same policies toward gay people or do you think that perhaps there's an underlying common cause there
You live in the fourth Reich that has killed tens of millions of people. You do not see the big picture at all. You are so narrow minded, you have blinders on
Your unwillingness to answer my question tells me all I need to know. I'm done here.
I'm sorry. No, no, no. Stop turning the tables. Do not just call someone names like that.
Do you think Palestinians are fascist because they are socially conservative? Don’t all fascists deserve the wall?
This is where your radliberalism leads.
Do not call people names or accuse them of things wrongfully.
Palestinians are not "socially conservative" compared to other nationalities.
I will call chauvinists and liberals by their name. If they find it to be pejorative, they should change their chauvinist opinions
Palestinians are socially conservative compared to breadtube online western leftists. That makes them fascists, as we saw above. And since all fascists go against the wall… we see where your chauvinism leads
Oh I know! Let’s set up a filtration system where we only liberate the Palestinians who pass our purity tests and the “fascist” ones get sent to Israel to deal with amirite fellow progressives?
They are not. You never made that distinction. Many protests and actions have been led by trans folk within Palestine, such as more recently. Stop accusing others of chauvinism.
stop accusing others of chauvinism
Palestinians pass your purity test levels due to some story about trans people in Palestine you skimmed once, so they are permitted to exist. Otherwise we would slaughter those fascists!! Critical support to Israel in spreading western progressive values!
You're being incredibly offensive and outrageous right now. Stop insulting others with stuff that's "fighting words." I never even said what you're saying.
PatSocs are indeed existent. Jackson Hinkle and Caleb Maupin exist and they are not being supported solely because they support Russia.
There are many communists that support Russia critically without being PatSocs whatsoever.
PatSocs are a huge problem so don't act like the problem is that Russia is kicking ass and anyone who supports them are misleadingly labled as "PatSocs."
If I indeed have you right.
I think China also just has less urgency with this sort of thing, if you let the numbers play out the outcome keeps improving from their perspective. Right now they would take huge losses in a confrontation and possibly lose outright if it came to that. 10 years ago it would have been worse, they've dramatically grown their capabilities in the interim while the US has more or less stalled. How will the math look 10 years from now? What's the point of being confrontational if the risk is already too great for the US to try anything, and keeps increasing by the day?
i agree with this analysis with the exception that China has a very low chance of losing a direct confrontation with the US now. the tech gap is huge rn in China’s favor and the only “advantage” the US still has (larger surface warfare ships) will likely turn out to actually be a disadvantage due to advances in missile technology. but yeah, it’s smart for them to wait for the US to make the first move
Magacommunists and vaush people are just paleocon and neocon respectively supporting a degree of post war US welfare state
Not even that big of a welfare state. Just pasty reforms at best and even then they don't really advocate or lobby for them.
Well at this point the McCarthyist brain rotting programs during the cold war probably move the goalpost so much that for Americans the English NHS is literally Stalinism
Fr!
No, but seriously, the stuff they want is paltry in comparison.
What I describe as ''welfare state'' is basically Classical liberal theory from England developped during the 19th century. The premise is not even communistic in nature, it's literally what is prescribe by Statist to implement Macro-economics within their countries
Neoliberalism is just the end result of a State-Capitalist state unable to cope with the falling rate of profit of the private and public sectors and the increasing wage of the working state. The bargaining they propose is the destruction of their country's industrial economy, the outsourcing to asia and the transformation of the working class into a lending class
Also, neoliberalism has changed since the 1970s, or at least has been doing that for sometime, as Cheng Enfu has said.
It is much like how Keynesianism is not the same thing as it was during the 30s and 40s.
I don't think any of them started out as feds. I think they simply fell into doing a thing and were then amplified by feds. Somewhere along the line they realised they were getting fed amplification and leaned into it and then may or may not have eventually met with a handler. Likely not though if this was the path into it, no need for it and it's all deniable.
30 years from now we'll be reading declassified documents about it.
Breadtubers are literally hired by the UK and US government to push certain narratives in their videos, there was a big drama about it last year when documents about it were leaked
If I recall correctly that was over vaccine and mask content for covid which nobody here is going to say is a bad thing.
It’s not concerning to you at all that these people have handlers and open communication lines with the CIA and MI6? You think they only got paid on one issue and then it all stopped, just a one time transaction?
"Open communication lines" amounts to a civil service person from some department charged with improving people's views on vaccinations sending an email to a business enquiries address and then doing a call in which options are discussed.
By itself it's literally meaningless. A leak of something that actually matters is required to get anyone thinking something actually shady is going on. I am not going to take part in using anything to do with vaccinations or covid as a propaganda tool, it's going to make you look like a magacommunist nazbol.
There was money exchanged don’t play dumb. Funny how the people with the most fixated hatred of “Patsocs” completely turn a blind eye to radlib imperialists who are 100 times as plentiful and 10 times as evil. Stop defending Breadtube social fascists. If you are going to attack patsoc weirdos then you can’t defend breadtubers. PhilosophyTube is as or more chauvinist than any patsoc figure, and they have a much larger platform
You're asking me to start claiming to people that spreading pro-vaccination and masking content is a bad thing. You know damn well how this will look when a liberal jumps into any damn conversation and starts screaming "this is anti vaxxer shit".
You're either being thoroughly naive or you are a wrecker trying to convince people to take up positions that will embarrass them or make them look bad. I'm sorry mate but this is simply not good enough. There is nothing actionable here.
Like I said, there's no way it's just on one issue that they are getting paid by the imperialist state. I don't trust anyone who receives funding from the US government to push propaganda, regardless of what the issue is and if I agree with it or not - because it shows a relationship of an imperial lackey and mouthpiece.
You're being naive by thinking they just took bribes once and never again. These are sell outs. They sell out. They are not your friends. In fact, they are the very face of our enemy, of social fascism, and the forms of fascism that are palatable to our milieu of western radlibs.
Who said I saw them as friends?
You're not really listening to me. You are soapboxing.
You are defending them taking money from the CIA lmao, just simply stop doing that
Taking money from a government department promoting vaccination is not the same thing as taking money from the cia. Framing it as such is the problem, it makes you look like a crank, and quite frankly I'm surprised to run into this kind of bad faith shit on Hexbear, I haven't seen it from any users here (not counting federated users) since the last purge.
Was your previous account Z poster? You remind me of them.
It was from USAID money, same money funding shit in Hong Kong and Syria lmao. It goes back to NED and CIA
Looks like you are the only conspiracy crank here, I don’t know who your past grievances are but you are the one with the wall of crazy here tying strings not me
You don't understand. When people get paid to do good things it's actually bad. What if that good thing was a bad thing? Pretty bad, huh?
We can't be sure that's the only thing they're getting paid to do, and personally I'm not willing to give them the benefit of doubt
Does it matter? They might be paid by the feds, or they might be looking out for their new (owning) class interests. It's the same outcome either way.
I'm just not about to dunk on them for getting paid to do a good thing. There's 1001 other reasons to hate them that aren't just guesses—they say and do ghoulish shit all the time. Let's dunk on that.
Breadtuber gets paid by USAID/NED to promote something, but what’s the big deal cause it’s something I agree with anyway? Right? Until they see how going outside certain limits makes you a “Russian propagandist” and ineligible for future money or jobs.
Getting paid by the CIA and wanting future pay days for other agreeable items still has a co-opting effect and chills any harsh criticism of imperialism or touchy subjects.
"were then amplified by feds."
Yes, I agree; it's very easy for the feds to amplify things with with troll-farms and extra likes and reposts.
"30 years from now we'll be reading declassified documents about it."
That's what I think as well. To me, it's too coordinated. They literally took over PCUSA and KFAUSA.
I just... get a bad feeling about them because attempts to resurrect Browderism were done in the 1960s by feds and sometimes they would use former anarchists or anarchists in their employ (or actual communists).
"Fed-jacketing" as a term came from that period as well. You also had groups like the Weatherman Underground which were heavily infiltrated as it continued. Hell, my org gets fed-jacked a lot and it's easier now with the Internet. Zionists also use troll-farms and can amplify lots of comments, as is well-documented.
I think it's necessary to structure orgs in a way that simply accepts it's impossible to stop feds joining and limits their impact by never giving anyone enough power or responsibility to be destructive.
Also possible that internal education programs could inoculate members against current reactionary trends somewhat. The tactic is essentially to create a reactionary trend with leftist aesthetics and to then attract people to it by seizing upon areas of theory that people are less educated in. It makes sense to me that if you get to people first and educate them against the trend you can essentially get ahead of their ability to attract.
Yes, I'm apart of the Education Department where I'm at and we're furnishing an education program for what you said in your last paragraph here. Yes, I agree that it's a good way to "pre-empt" others from being attracted to these reactionary ideologies to begin with and keep more members (lots of new members appear and then disappear on the first day; we call it "window-shopping" as they often join another org and then another just to see which ones they like the most).
With one power shot you'll see what vengeance means
Are they trying to say that maga communists are a psyop?
Wouldn't surprise me. Like the author of the OP tweet said, a lot of maga communism feels like it was workshopped in a DNC lab by committee of what blue dogs think leftists are (racist national socialists).
Oh btw...
This is off-topic, but I can give you that grub-hub gift card if you still need one.
I got money now.
I mean, it was made for the express purpose of being contrarian against Liberals and pissing them off so it doesn’t surprise me that it’s the exact opposite of their beliefs across the board
It was not just to piss off liberals. You have no proof of that and I can tell you that the ones harassing Indigenous and trans people have an emotional stake in the fight.
Their whole thing feels incongruous with basically everyone else who subscribes to some flavor of socialism i've met. A little too quick to start shit. A little too contrarian.
In the end it's all a pointless slapfight between internet dweebs that the population at large couldn't give a single fuck about.
I disagree. They've taken over organizations or, in some cases, have tried to and wrecked, such as my own org.
I agree that the wider populace may not care, but it should matter, to us at least.
MAGA Communists are the Washington Generals of democratic socialist politics.
Lyndon Liability.
