Mods are pretty good at banning incorrigibles, and very few people were born with perfect takes on ableism and other types of bigotry. You can't really radicalize people if you close yourself off to people who aren't already radicalized.
There's enough ableism on the site as it is, saying this as an !ND mod
That shit sucks to see and deal with, even if it gets mopped up quickly, and not all of it does
If we were really able to start a culture shift and have a big boost in awareness and education, as has been happening with trans issues I'd say yeah lets onboard more folks to help learn and grow, but that's not where we're at imo
We shouldn't tolerate ableism -- we should berate (and educate) folks who do it, and ban them if they don't get the message real quick. I'm even fine with banning them on sight, provided we tack on a little "make another account and post better" message with it. But if we want to start the type of culture shift you're talking about, that involves interacting with these people in at least some fashion. I think that's definitely possible with stuff like the r-word, at least, which is a significant start.
You're right, and I hope to see it happen! That would be awesome
But here's where we are now: last time I tried starting a conversation about this type of stuff, I was mass downvoted and dogpiled in the comments. Which is personally one of my worst anxieties. Since then, I've seen the same happen several times to other comrades. Many ND comrades are scared to post on the site at this point for fear of being instantly banned for a single transgression, mistake, bad take, or 'off' social interaction. ND users are regularly whipped up into a frenzy and/or debated back and forth and dogpiled for the amusement of the crowd, and usually resulting in them getting banned because they got upset because they were at that point in crisis. Even just today with the AOC troops post, as well as recently in a post IN !neurodiverse@hexbear.net which had NT people coming in to invalidate a ND comrades lived experience
I'm getting burnt out, it's terrifying to even try lest I get dogpiled again, and that's a sentiment that's been privately shared with me several times at this point
last time I tried starting a conversation about this type of stuff, I was mass downvoted and dogpiled in the comments
I think I remember the thread(s?) you're talking about. If we're thinking of the same thread, people were on board with the r-word being a slur, and with calling someone some diagnosable condition being a slur, and most of the debate/discussion/struggle session was about words like "crazy" or "dumb." Does that sound right to you? If so, even getting people to give up that first, most aggressive set of demeaning words would be a big step forward for many WSB posters (at least from what I've seen of that sub over the last week).
As for ND comrades' concerns over a quick trigger on bans, that's definitely a problem with the "ban quick and tell people to make a new account" idea. I'd be OK with that idea including an appeal process, although I'd like it to be one stickied thread in !userunion@hexbear.net instead of a new thread for each appeal (solely to keep every appeal from turning into a community-wide struggle session). I'm open to other ideas, too; I just know how tough it is to create a moderation policy that seems reasonably fair but (1) keeps wreckers and trolls at bay and (2) doesn't turn into a big, elaborate process every time.
they seemed honest and willing to learn from their mistake from what I saw, and people are all about giving people time to learn and grow when it comes to ableism
Regardless of that user, their post (which wasn’t transphobic or even really about trans stuff I don’t think) in !neurodiverse@hexbear.net was recieved in good faith and with users connecting to the post and the feelings it expressed, those folks, our ND comrades, are who I’m talking about
That user was complaining about TC69 and I thought it was suspicious and misleading. I regretted posting in that thread because I didn't realize the comm it was on and a bunch of people, including you called me out for it. But lo and behold the person almost immediately says some transphobic shit and got banned.
I won't be coming into the ND comm again, but that person was not a comrade and deserved to be called out.
They absolutely deserved to be called out, yeah, I'm not saying give anyone a pass, or again, particularly arguing for this user, nor did I mean to imply that there's beef with you, just was referencing the occurrence as an example
Not to mention categorizing it as 'complaining' is bullshit, and the kind of stuff that's been said to me all my life to get me to shut up when I was treated unjustly, and the exact kind of thing I'm talking about.
regardless, I'm logging off because I feel like I'm coming off completely the wrong way and it's freaking me out
Mods are pretty good at banning incorrigibles, and very few people were born with perfect takes on ableism and other types of bigotry. You can't really radicalize people if you close yourself off to people who aren't already radicalized.
There's enough ableism on the site as it is, saying this as an !ND mod
That shit sucks to see and deal with, even if it gets mopped up quickly, and not all of it does
If we were really able to start a culture shift and have a big boost in awareness and education, as has been happening with trans issues I'd say yeah lets onboard more folks to help learn and grow, but that's not where we're at imo
We shouldn't tolerate ableism -- we should berate (and educate) folks who do it, and ban them if they don't get the message real quick. I'm even fine with banning them on sight, provided we tack on a little "make another account and post better" message with it. But if we want to start the type of culture shift you're talking about, that involves interacting with these people in at least some fashion. I think that's definitely possible with stuff like the r-word, at least, which is a significant start.
You're right, and I hope to see it happen! That would be awesome
But here's where we are now: last time I tried starting a conversation about this type of stuff, I was mass downvoted and dogpiled in the comments. Which is personally one of my worst anxieties. Since then, I've seen the same happen several times to other comrades. Many ND comrades are scared to post on the site at this point for fear of being instantly banned for a single transgression, mistake, bad take, or 'off' social interaction. ND users are regularly whipped up into a frenzy and/or debated back and forth and dogpiled for the amusement of the crowd, and usually resulting in them getting banned because they got upset because they were at that point in crisis. Even just today with the AOC troops post, as well as recently in a post IN !neurodiverse@hexbear.net which had NT people coming in to invalidate a ND comrades lived experience
I'm getting burnt out, it's terrifying to even try lest I get dogpiled again, and that's a sentiment that's been privately shared with me several times at this point
I think I remember the thread(s?) you're talking about. If we're thinking of the same thread, people were on board with the r-word being a slur, and with calling someone some diagnosable condition being a slur, and most of the debate/discussion/struggle session was about words like "crazy" or "dumb." Does that sound right to you? If so, even getting people to give up that first, most aggressive set of demeaning words would be a big step forward for many WSB posters (at least from what I've seen of that sub over the last week).
As for ND comrades' concerns over a quick trigger on bans, that's definitely a problem with the "ban quick and tell people to make a new account" idea. I'd be OK with that idea including an appeal process, although I'd like it to be one stickied thread in !userunion@hexbear.net instead of a new thread for each appeal (solely to keep every appeal from turning into a community-wide struggle session). I'm open to other ideas, too; I just know how tough it is to create a moderation policy that seems reasonably fair but (1) keeps wreckers and trolls at bay and (2) doesn't turn into a big, elaborate process every time.
Didn't this user get banned for transphobia? Transphobes ain't comrades of mine.
they seemed honest and willing to learn from their mistake from what I saw, and people are all about giving people time to learn and grow when it comes to ableism
Regardless of that user, their post (which wasn’t transphobic or even really about trans stuff I don’t think) in !neurodiverse@hexbear.net was recieved in good faith and with users connecting to the post and the feelings it expressed, those folks, our ND comrades, are who I’m talking about
That user was complaining about TC69 and I thought it was suspicious and misleading. I regretted posting in that thread because I didn't realize the comm it was on and a bunch of people, including you called me out for it. But lo and behold the person almost immediately says some transphobic shit and got banned.
I won't be coming into the ND comm again, but that person was not a comrade and deserved to be called out.
They absolutely deserved to be called out, yeah, I'm not saying give anyone a pass, or again, particularly arguing for this user, nor did I mean to imply that there's beef with you, just was referencing the occurrence as an example
Not to mention categorizing it as 'complaining' is bullshit, and the kind of stuff that's been said to me all my life to get me to shut up when I was treated unjustly, and the exact kind of thing I'm talking about.
regardless, I'm logging off because I feel like I'm coming off completely the wrong way and it's freaking me out