Seriously. For a community who have actively worked so hard to rid themselves of internalised imperialism, a lot of people around here are doing things like equating religion or theism itself with anthropocentric religion, or assuming that the concept of God is always personal in a theological sense, etc. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and other mainstream ones have become widely synonymous with religion itself as a byproduct of the hegemony achieved through empire, and decolonising your ideas about economics, politics, and culture is undermined by not doing similarly with religion. And for those who think that doing so is a waste of time: Society and its history are profoundly intertwined with religion, religions are still extremely powerful structures, and an overwhelming majority of the global proletariat who we must work with are religious, so this very much is important.
Extended sidenote because I'm a scientist and people often butcher this passion of mine in religious conversation, and for context I am not religious (but I'm sure that some will still decide for themselves that I am and that this is all a cynical shill for Jeezy boi): There is very frequent dogshit-tier use of science by a lot of western Logic Bros™ to refute all religion (and for clarity I explicitly mean all; I am not referring exclusively to anthropocentric religion). Hilariously, although they are not likely to admit it or understand why this is, "Science" has become to many of them a religion itself - albeit fairly theoretically advanced with a significant amount of evidence, but with faith-based extrapolations and anthropocentric rationalisations which actual scientists worth their salt do not make because it is scientifically improper. For completeness and because some iamverysmart Logic Bros™ are almost definitely pouncing on this, this paragraph does not apply to alllll of them, but it typically does to those adapting scientific arguments without a comprehensive understanding of both science and, crucially, nuance in scientific analysis, and I've found that the latter only comes from a fair bit of academic research and critique of published work. This was very much me before developing my understanding by the way, and I am not passing judgement for the reasons I explain below.
A similar decolonisation argument may also be made for science, since its worship is a consequence of the philosophies of anthropocentricism and human 'progress' above nature, which were spread deliberately by the West during the industrial-era and beyond to justify the extraction and destruction of people and natural resources. More generally, blind fetishisation of science within the left undermines our causes and needs to stop. It's often still used to oppress and steal land from religious and indigenous people - citations needed did a really good episode on this.
When people do fetishise science it's most likely because they have a weak understanding of what it actually is on a fundamental level, and it's not simply "jUsT dRaWiNg cOnCLuSiOnS bAsEd oN eViDeNcE" as many of the worst offenders scream. In philosophical discussion, science is far more to do with justifying the type of conclusions which can or can not be made based on the rigorous analysis of the data and the lack of it. Science is not just the headline of the academic paper, and if you're using either the existence or extrapolation of these headlines (i.e. the colloquial understanding of scientific progress) or a lack of scientific evidence for particular faiths to refute your personal understanding of religion in its entirety, then you're doing so from a fundamentally flawed understanding of theism and/or science.
I absolutely don't blame people for misunderstanding scientific analysis which is very practice and expert teaching-dependent and typically has a high financial barrier, but for the love of fuck chapos, decolonise your understanding of religion and the concept of a God. If you've come so far in other areas, why let theism undermine it just because you're not religious? I'll let you off for scientific inaccuracies in this post, but if anyone makes arguments conflating theism itself with anthropocentric religion then you're getting a paddlin'. Much love to you all <3
Edit: To paraphrase an important point made by a comrade below, there is an active and vocal contingent of people on the internet and also this site who use every excuse to do the fedora “magical sky daddy” strawman against every person with even vaguely spiritual beliefs, who advocate for excluding any religious/faithful/spiritual folks from their spaces and make those spaces hostile.
Jokes aside, this is a good and important post. Like many suburban middle class agnostic white kids, my...I guess spiritual wakening, came as part of a psychadellic experience, and unlearning all the bullshit institutional connotations that layered themselves atop my understanding of the eternal is a weight off my shoulders. I can only imagine what it must feel like for someone who actually spent their life immersed in those institutions.
Ritual bathing under the full moon sounds rad.
Actually wait I'm just thinking of skinny dipping, that's what's appealing. But we should do that too, that's my religion.
Further evidence that EMW is obviously the only correct take on religion, anything else is warped by cultural preconceptions.
:hex-moon:
Man you really hated that agnostic thread lmao
How dare these chauvinistic westerners talk about their own experiences & cultures when asked
I'm very sympathetic to this topic - as an atheist fan of science and religion. But, no offense meant, what's your thesis here?
a lot of people around here are equating religion or theism itself with anthropocentric religion.
Are you just saying - there're religions beyond the Abrahamic ones (that people should know about)? Or that they have themes/ideas worth exploring? (And if it's the latter would you care to elaborate?)
Religion is intertwined with society, as you said. It's a major part of the social reality. But if you're surrounded by people 98% of whom are into Abrahamic religions (99.9% if you add Hinduism and semi-anthropocentric Buddhism) if they're into any religion, other religions are a philosophical interest, not a political one. Not to say it's not worthwhile, but it's more of a curiosity rather than necessary knowledge.
But if you’re surrounded by people 98% of whom are into Abrahamic religions (99.9% if you add Hinduism and semi-anthropocentric Buddhism) if they’re into any religion, other religions are a philosophical interest, not a political one. Not to say it’s not worthwhile, but it’s more of a curiosity rather than necessary knowledge.
Maybe they're thinking about indigenous beliefs?
Science is when you generate revenue for you employer by modeling the very scientific economy using very scientific buzzwords.
does it count as decolonization if i mindwiped all memories of religion due to trauma
That's a separate issue, and needs to be hashed out with a panel of expert, caring psychiatrists, therapists, general pracs and solid support systems. You have trauma, but leftist nu atheists are some of the most smarmy shitlord people
Sure. As long as you leave me the fuck alone with my magic books and sky daddy then i'll leave you alone in your atheism
I'd like to point out that those non-western and indigenous religious people love to romantisize served and serve as means of subjugation and control by the ruling class.
But they also aren't used for that anymore in most cases. People on the left who are anti-religion are extremely harmful. Most of Latin America, the Middle East, literally everywhere on the planet hold some religious beliefs and live in a religious community. Idiots from imperialist countries coming to tell people anywhere, especially people outside their own country "well actually you've just been colonized and you should stop believing your colonizer's religion" is just extremely stupid, rude, racist, and counterproductive behavior. Most people's religion isn't harmful in any way, and if someone has "conservative" social beliefs its usually because of their general culture, not because they think it is religiously ordained that they have those beliefs.
Most people’s religion isn’t harmful in any way, and if someone has “conservative” social beliefs its usually because of their general culture, not because they think it is religiously ordained that they have those belief
Not sure sure I buy into the idea that religion doesn't affect social believes. The "general culture" you talk about has been shaped by religion in a lot of places. Doubly so when those religions are connected to powerful international organisations like Catholic church that aren't shy about using their resources to affect local culture law and politics.
It probably depends on how much they're really connected to organized religion versus a local offshoot then. But that's really just politics. People that have some old texts and newer religious practices that provide some foundation for their beliefs are not necessarily more susceptible to right-wing beliefs. They're correlated but you don't become right-wing by being religious. Religion is just a part of a bigger thing that too many people want to immediately trash talk and discount. And that isn't how you win.
Which ones are you referring to specifically? Or do you mean as a general rule?
Great post!
Most atheists are what they are because they haven’t been shown proof of an extraordinary claim
For the folks who believe this, theres either people who respect the viewpoints and understanding of their faithful comrades, or they take the slightest opportunity to jump up our assholes with the skydaddy bullshit and i'm fuckin sick of it.
I ultimately realized antagonistic anti-theism was largely centered in a place of contrarian reaction. Just because I hadn’t experienced something that lead me (back) to faith, doesn’t mean that others couldn’t have. That all said, it doesn’t excuse the behavior, but does help explain it.
Which absolutely is a valid feeling, but yeah their reactions are not. Its absolutely (ironically) holier than thou in the exact wrong way as to make religious folks look at you like you're crazy.
Again, institutions are the issue, not the people
Oh absolutely, I'm not blaming anyone here, especially folks like you
Sorry pal, science doesn't care about your feelings, only the size and shape of your skull grabs calipers