I mentioned stuff about walmart and modern technology and somebody sent me a long wall text of how that wouldn't work because entire economies are too complex even for supercomputers.

now on tiktok anytime somebody says something remotely socialist they get spammed with "debunk the ECP"

  • comi [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Why? Even billion row input-output matrix can fit in slightly expensive pc, not super computer

    • Multihedra [he/him]
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      edit-2
      4 years ago

      I wouldn’t imagine storage to be the issue, rather manipulations of the data (certain matrix operations can be extremely expensive, but there’s easily hundreds of thousands of pages of research on optimizing all sorts of matrix operations).

      That said, I do agree that even computations on this scale are feasible—if, as a society, we agree that they should be done.

      A frivolous examples comes to mind. I saw a talk by a mathematician proving that any state of the Rubik’s cube could be unscrambled with at most 20 moves; more info here. In order to prove this, they got some help from Google:

      How did we solve all 43,252,003,274,489,856,000 positions of the Cube?

      We partitioned the positions into 2,217,093,120 sets of 19,508,428,800 positions each.

      We reduced the count of sets we needed to solve to 55,882,296 using symmetry and set covering.

      We did not find optimal solutions to each position, but instead only solutions of length 20 or less.

      We wrote a program that solved a single set in about 20 seconds.

      We used about 35 CPU years to find solutions to all of the positions in each of the 55,882,296 sets.

      (This last part, about 35 CPU-years, was what was done by google’s resources. I don’t remember how long it took, but i imagine a few days at most).

      Economic planning on a national scale would be a mammoth undertaking, since the economy is much less structured and much more complicated than a Rubik’s cube. But I do believe, were our national resources properly mobilized, that it is feasible.

      • comi [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        They are usually ram expensive (shit latency) or l3 cache ideally, it’s not mammoth though, let’s take america for example, the most amount of factories america can have is 200 million, each making relatively simple operation like 10 commodities goes in, 10 commodities comes out (even that is over complicating things). That’s at best 2 billion different commodities (again, ceiling of sku-s), that’s close to trivial, if my pc can juggle 10^7 row matrices.

        • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
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          edit-2
          4 years ago

          Fucking sims city 2000 handles central planning on a core 2 duo. Basic economic simulation isn't that complicated, especially because demand doesn't change drastically from one day to the next.

          The only reason "simulating the economy" is so hard right now is because it's totally nonsensical and you're accounting for markets with no relation to actual demand.

          I guarantee you that a decent enough central planning program could work well even if it was just done on paper by 1000 bean counters.

          The most important thing is having a government/party that's capable of shutting down loopholes and preventing gaming of the markets for profit (but that would basically mean scrapping the entire finance industry, which the people who say this is impossible don't even consider).