I get that it's a meme, but what's the problem? I'm vegetarian/flirt with veganism; it's purely for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.
Indian food is delicious. An Impossible burger on a pretzel bun dripping with grilled onions, avocado, vegan aioli and mustard with a side of steak fries? That's also delicious, in my opinion.
Meat is delicious, and that's not at all incompatible with my reasoning for being vegetarian.
It's objectively the correct moral position and if you can't at least admit that you're a baby. There is no debate. Just a bunch of people whining about how much they dun wanna and look what you made me do by saying I was wrong.
I called out each and every reactionary in this thread for exactly how they behave without fail and without fail you pulled the exact same shit I said you would. "Oh, you're going to tell me what I'm doing is wrong? Well now I'm going to do it more!"
I referred to it in a way where 'the' could work in the sentence. And even so, doesn't seem anything will help you actually know what i'm actually saying.
I never said I was going to do it more?
Im sorry for not being the cookie cutter reactionary you get to 'dunk on', stop making a bonfire out of a matchstick. I agree with vegetarianism in its entirety, and veganism, but I can't be bothered to care about 'morals' that you gave to yourself to look better. There are parts of this ultraism that no animal liberationist or whatever have ever given a real answer to. Its pure ideology.
And even so, doesn't seem anything will help you actually know what i'm actually saying.
oh please do go on. Maybe you'll make me not want to do the bad thing when you tell me not to do the bad thing
I never said I was going to do it more?
Im sorry for not being the cookie cutter reactionary
Yes you are. I described exactly what you are and you are exactly what I described. You did the thing. Stop being a redditor and arguing about it. Self crit or shut the fuck up. Stop turning the argument about murdering, torturing and raping 100's of millions of animals a year into "how dare you say something about me that I carefully worded my bullshit to avoid accountability for"
Like I'm supposed to not call someone a white supremacist because they studiously avoid saying the n-word in that moment.
oh please do go on. Maybe you'll make me not want to do the bad thing when you tell me not to do the bad thing
Huh? Im not even concern trolling I don't understand how you could get to this.
I never said I was going to do it more?
The Hexbear tendency to post emojis instead of a response strikes again.
Yes you are. I described exactly what you are and you are exactly what I described. You did the thing. Stop being a redditor and arguing about it. Self crit or shut the fuck up.
What?
what thing?
cite where I did the thing? You were talking about how im going to keep doing it, but I never said I had a carnist diet. Mine is vegetarian. Its really fuckin funny you just go for the low effort 'owns'.
god why am I fine one second but now a terrible reactionary for fuckin food all of a sudden. Its silly, really. I started with a little non-confrontationist comment and you proceeded to go all 'holier-than-thou' like some twitter lib.
I self crit, conceded, but am unconvinced on some of the finer points. I agree with the ending of meat culture and transitioning to a vegan society, take that and go, leave the silly fake morality behind. Ya really give the "hate the hillbillies for their savagery" vibe lol.
god why am I fine one second but now a terrible reactionary for fuckin food all of a sudden
The part where you react to someone criticizing you for your actions and beliefs by doubling down on them and sneering at the criticism in the first place as illegitimate. That thing.
You were talking about how im going to keep doing it, but I never said I had a carnist diet.
"GOOD LUCK GETTING PEOPLE TO STOP THING BY SAYING THING IS BAD LOLOL"
Ya really give the "hate the hillbillies for their savagery" vibe lol.
Just because you have zero ability for self perception doesn't mean that I haven't been citing you doing this shit in every reply I've sent. Every single one.
The Hexbear tendency to post emojis instead of a response strikes again.
And speaking of fucking reading comprehension. I gave you the emojis but I also gave you a paragraph saying why. I can't deal with your level of bullshit right now.
thanks wow i guess being on hexbear for 1 year and lemmygrad on 2 doesn't matter when im so morally repugnant, please enlighten such a poor infidel, maybe your words can give me salvation.
"GOOD LUCK GETTING PEOPLE TO STOP THING BY SAYING THING IS BAD LOLOL"
never said that. Do I get to say strawman, or did mom say its your turn on the funny words.
Just because you have zero ability for self perception doesn't mean that I haven't been citing you doing this shit in every reply I've sent. Every single one.
make an enemy out of me all you want, still doesn't manifest it into reality.
I agreed with your opinions, you just decided that it wasn't enough. I got annoyed when you just took a shit trying to explain how 'superior' you were. Quoting and posting an emoji does not an argument make.
The part where you react to someone criticizing you for your actions and beliefs by doubling down on them and sneering at the criticism in the first place as illegitimate. That thing.
honestly what fuckin actions. Im a vegitarian. Did you assume I was some McDonalds fanatic because I was annoyed with you? You have no 'proof' you're just being an asshole.
I'm so fucking sick of explicitly telling you what my problem is and then you pretending to not to have heard it so you can be mockingly obtuse like this. I'm so fucking sick of quoting you saying a thing and then you getting pissed off at me for accusing you of 'thing' without saying what 'thing' was. I'm so fucking sick of you being an asshole and then pulling the mock victim shit like I'm supposed to be fucking evil and unreasonable because I point out an offense.
Did you assume I was some McDonalds fanatic because I was annoyed with you?
No. I fucking quoted you and referenced your point every fucking time I opened my fucking mouth. I'm done. I don't give a fucking shit what you profess to be. I care what you fucking said in the first place. I'm not spying on you in your home. I'm responding to you on a forum.
No. I fucking quoted you and referenced your point every fucking time I opened my fucking mouth. I'm done. I don't give a fucking shit what you profess to be. I care what you fucking said in the first place. I'm not spying on you in your home. I'm responding to you on a forum.
what you were doing is quoting me and then jumping to conclusions, don't act like you're special. like where did that last sentence even come from? Im completely genuine in my confusion on how the hell you got there. What does spying have anything to do with assuming things about me?
I'm so fucking sick of explicitly telling you what my problem is and then you pretending to not to have heard it so you can be mockingly obtuse like this. I'm so fucking sick of quoting you saying a thing and then you getting pissed off at me for accusing you of 'thing' without saying what 'thing' was. I'm so fucking sick of you being an asshole and then pulling the mock victim shit like I'm supposed to be fucking evil and unreasonable because I point out an offense.
Oh I heard your points, its the fact that they weren't grounded in reality that I had a problem with. Get over your fucking self. Saying what 'thing' was? You're the one who fucking brought it up?! Are you fucking kidding me? all you said was "Oh, you're going to tell me what I'm doing is wrong? Well now I'm going to do it more!" in different ways like some fucking mantra. Please actually have a cohesive argument and not be depending on your righteous indignation to get you through the argument. its like dealing with a fucking toddler.
Who was the one who went on some unwanted rant after a one and done statement. All I said is that the struggle session has been brewing, then you had to shit your manifesto all over my salad.
okay unreasonable? yeah. Evil? no. You really want to talk about doing the mock victim routine, because pulling shit out of your ass to get some sympathy seems to be a textbook version of that. Also again, what fucking offense? Did I condemn veganism? Did I side with carnism? Did I do anything besides not care about your ultraism? Get over yourself.
For real. I was raised on slop, now that I'm a vegetarian, it doesn't mean I don't like the foods I grew up eating.
I guess the point is that we don't need to rely on expensive substitutes made by the same corps that own slaughterhouses to make tasty, nutritious vegan food
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether. If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven't let go of meat entirely, I found it easy to get back to meat eating.
That is not at all what this is like, completely ignorant metaphor
Imagine someone addicted to eating their poop. Perhaps they are reforming their ways, and for some time they take half measures like eating smelly chili. Eventually they realize their unhealthy fixation isn't really overcome by this, so they move onto food that doesn't resemble poop, like a salad maybe
Animal products have good taste for most people. The issue with them is not their taste, or the actual act of consumption of them, it's the fact that their production necessarily involves the torture and killing of sapient beings.
If you can have "meat" without such effects (so, those fake vegan "meats"), then there is nothing wrong with it at all (I still prefer most of the time my rice, beans, tofu and TSP if only due to the cost but again, nothing wrong with it, quite the contrary).
I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don't choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn't want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.
there is nothing wrong with it at all
Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain "meat" as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It's great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn't address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.
How I know it's a cultivated desire: it doesn't exist across cultures. Hell it doesn't exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I'm sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there?
Crab sticks are usually fake, but generally, fish is harder to immigrate accurately than other meats, and there's less demand for it since people in the west don't generally eat tons of fish anyway.
Less demand for real fish means less demand for imitation fish, though there is apparently a company somewhere making lab grown salmon and tuna.
Bravery has nothing to do with it. It tastes good, and there's no harm to any animals. So why not eat it? Denial for the sake of denial is not a virtue.
If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven't let go of meat entirely, and it would be easy to get back to meat eating.
That's like saying that if you enjoy shooting people in video games, then you're one step away from shooting people in real life. I've been eating fake meats for almost a decade now, and I've never been tempted to eat real meat.
I know how horrible and senseless factory farming is, and I have images of the slaughtered seared into my memory from vegan documentaries. Why would I go back to that when I can have substitutes that are just as good, if not better?
I can't really answer the question of why, but the sample set of people I know who switch to vegetarianism and veganism bears out that the ones who rely in fake meats much more frequently switch back than those who focus on learning to cook foods that don't imitate meat.
On the counterargument, I did miss cheese quite a bit, and learning to culture my own vegan cheeses hasn't led to buying animal milk cheeses again, so ymmv
Good job but not everyone has the mental fortitude you have displayed. I know plenty of people who tried going vegan, ate the fake meat and egg stuff, and just went back to the real stuff for the taste
Anyways it's not about the individual level, it's more the social ie the social ingraining to have the form and experience of meat contributes to the "culture" and demand of meat
The fake stuff (and cultivated meat for that matter) are getting closer to parity every year. You don't go back to something "for the taste", if the alternative you switched to offers a near identical experience.
Okay but we aren't there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat "culture" have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others
Do you think that you could've gotten those people converted to an Indian diet, and they would've remained vegan? Getting people to go vegan in the first place is extremely difficult. Try getting them to go vegan and replace their diet with Indian food.
Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or "soy paneer" aka tofu to make it vegan)
Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
Meat is generally spiced more heavily in warm climates because it spoils faster and hot spices both preserves meat by killing bacteria and disguise a certain degree of spoilage.
I would be surprised if the trend towards hot spices in a country that is generally both warm and humid is because of a difference in palette rather than the reasons above.
Being called stupid and criticizing my decisions kept me from "being brave"
Like "You're not good enough until you are this much" bullshit. If that's the attitude, then fuck no. Why do I wanna go even further into things if y'all are assholes right off the bat. Like, no. fuck you. If it's this complicated then I am going to do what has been a life of hassle free eating. My guilt is very easily wiped away like that.
I'd argue that the fake meat stuff has hurt veganism to at least some extent because it's marketed so heavily and people think it's the only way to eat vegan. You can see how prominent the ”all vegan food is processed” and ”it's too expensive to be vegan” arguments have become, even in this thread.
The problem is that you're still fixated on the form and experience of meat. A full mindset change is more robust.
It's like how fake leather can help replace and reduce real leather usage, but if the trend of desiring leather died out in the first place, the whole problem is dropped altogether
I don't want to stop eating meat, I want to stop the exploitation and suffering of animals.
While I want to stop the exploitation of animals more than I want to eat meat, if there is a path that allows me to do both, I will have a preference for that path.
The same goes for leather. It's use isn't worth what has to be done to create it, but it is a fantastic material with a lot of versatility that's better than near all alternatives in plenty of applications. Fake leather and synthetic leather are wonderful innovations because we can enjoy the benefits without the negatives, and that's something to be encouraged rather than avoided.
I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I'm just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here
I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I've never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess
I'm not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I'm saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn't nicotine patches alone
not entirely, as leather is still a wildly useful fabric and material for many uses which synthetic leather can serve(to a greater or lesser extent, granted), but only in specific cases can meat not be replaced/not replaced effectively
I get that it's a meme, but what's the problem? I'm vegetarian/flirt with veganism; it's purely for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.
Indian food is delicious. An Impossible burger on a pretzel bun dripping with grilled onions, avocado, vegan aioli and mustard with a side of steak fries? That's also delicious, in my opinion.
Meat is delicious, and that's not at all incompatible with my reasoning for being vegetarian.
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Yeah, it seems that "your meme is kinda gatekeepy" is a pretty good way to start some "spirited discussions."
Hexbear has had the veganism struggle session boiling since federation.
It's objectively the correct moral position and if you can't at least admit that you're a baby. There is no debate. Just a bunch of people whining about how much they dun wanna and look what you made me do by saying I was wrong.
I was making a statement, not inviting your opinion.
Well that's when you say something out loud in the room you're in instead of saying it on the internet
please do go on, maybe youll get me to care about dead farm animals on the way
"Look what you made me do."
did the english comprehension fail for a bit or are you trying to be silly
'the' english comprehension, is it?
I called out each and every reactionary in this thread for exactly how they behave without fail and without fail you pulled the exact same shit I said you would. "Oh, you're going to tell me what I'm doing is wrong? Well now I'm going to do it more!"
Baby brain.
I referred to it in a way where 'the' could work in the sentence. And even so, doesn't seem anything will help you actually know what i'm actually saying.
I never said I was going to do it more?
Im sorry for not being the cookie cutter reactionary you get to 'dunk on', stop making a bonfire out of a matchstick. I agree with vegetarianism in its entirety, and veganism, but I can't be bothered to care about 'morals' that you gave to yourself to look better. There are parts of this ultraism that no animal liberationist or whatever have ever given a real answer to. Its pure ideology.
Yes you are. I described exactly what you are and you are exactly what I described. You did the thing. Stop being a redditor and arguing about it. Self crit or shut the fuck up. Stop turning the argument about murdering, torturing and raping 100's of millions of animals a year into "how dare you say something about me that I carefully worded my bullshit to avoid accountability for"
Like I'm supposed to not call someone a white supremacist because they studiously avoid saying the n-word in that moment.
Huh? Im not even concern trolling I don't understand how you could get to this.
The Hexbear tendency to post emojis instead of a response strikes again.
What?
what thing?
cite where I did the thing? You were talking about how im going to keep doing it, but I never said I had a carnist diet. Mine is vegetarian. Its really fuckin funny you just go for the low effort 'owns'.
god why am I fine one second but now a terrible reactionary for fuckin food all of a sudden. Its silly, really. I started with a little non-confrontationist comment and you proceeded to go all 'holier-than-thou' like some twitter lib.
I self crit, conceded, but am unconvinced on some of the finer points. I agree with the ending of meat culture and transitioning to a vegan society, take that and go, leave the silly fake morality behind. Ya really give the "hate the hillbillies for their savagery" vibe lol.
The part where you react to someone criticizing you for your actions and beliefs by doubling down on them and sneering at the criticism in the first place as illegitimate. That thing.
"GOOD LUCK GETTING PEOPLE TO STOP THING BY SAYING THING IS BAD LOLOL"
Just because you have zero ability for self perception doesn't mean that I haven't been citing you doing this shit in every reply I've sent. Every single one.
And speaking of fucking reading comprehension. I gave you the emojis but I also gave you a paragraph saying why. I can't deal with your level of bullshit right now.
you fucking modified the goddamn comment?! What the fuck?
Are you seriously being this fucking dogshit about something barely worth discussing? Fuck off, who cares!
thanks wow i guess being on hexbear for 1 year and lemmygrad on 2 doesn't matter when im so morally repugnant, please enlighten such a poor infidel, maybe your words can give me salvation.
never said that. Do I get to say strawman, or did mom say its your turn on the funny words.
make an enemy out of me all you want, still doesn't manifest it into reality.
I agreed with your opinions, you just decided that it wasn't enough. I got annoyed when you just took a shit trying to explain how 'superior' you were. Quoting and posting an emoji does not an argument make.
honestly what fuckin actions. Im a vegitarian. Did you assume I was some McDonalds fanatic because I was annoyed with you? You have no 'proof' you're just being an asshole.
I'm so fucking sick of explicitly telling you what my problem is and then you pretending to not to have heard it so you can be mockingly obtuse like this. I'm so fucking sick of quoting you saying a thing and then you getting pissed off at me for accusing you of 'thing' without saying what 'thing' was. I'm so fucking sick of you being an asshole and then pulling the mock victim shit like I'm supposed to be fucking evil and unreasonable because I point out an offense.
No. I fucking quoted you and referenced your point every fucking time I opened my fucking mouth. I'm done. I don't give a fucking shit what you profess to be. I care what you fucking said in the first place. I'm not spying on you in your home. I'm responding to you on a forum.
what you were doing is quoting me and then jumping to conclusions, don't act like you're special. like where did that last sentence even come from? Im completely genuine in my confusion on how the hell you got there. What does spying have anything to do with assuming things about me?
Oh I heard your points, its the fact that they weren't grounded in reality that I had a problem with. Get over your fucking self. Saying what 'thing' was? You're the one who fucking brought it up?! Are you fucking kidding me? all you said was "Oh, you're going to tell me what I'm doing is wrong? Well now I'm going to do it more!" in different ways like some fucking mantra. Please actually have a cohesive argument and not be depending on your righteous indignation to get you through the argument. its like dealing with a fucking toddler.
Who was the one who went on some unwanted rant after a one and done statement. All I said is that the struggle session has been brewing, then you had to shit your manifesto all over my salad.
okay unreasonable? yeah. Evil? no. You really want to talk about doing the mock victim routine, because pulling shit out of your ass to get some sympathy seems to be a textbook version of that. Also again, what fucking offense? Did I condemn veganism? Did I side with carnism? Did I do anything besides not care about your ultraism? Get over yourself.
at least learn how to gaslight someone correctly, you modified the comment after I posted you fucking freak
Why do you feel compelled to keep doing this?
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For real. I was raised on slop, now that I'm a vegetarian, it doesn't mean I don't like the foods I grew up eating.
I guess the point is that we don't need to rely on expensive substitutes made by the same corps that own slaughterhouses to make tasty, nutritious vegan food
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether. If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven't let go of meat entirely, I found it easy to get back to meat eating.
You're chatting out your ass, this is like saying lesbians shouldn't use dildos in case they go back to fucking men
Complete ignorance of the thing you're talking about
Keep it civil please.
🥰
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That is not at all what this is like, completely ignorant metaphor
Imagine someone addicted to eating their poop. Perhaps they are reforming their ways, and for some time they take half measures like eating smelly chili. Eventually they realize their unhealthy fixation isn't really overcome by this, so they move onto food that doesn't resemble poop, like a salad maybe
No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.
Animal products have good taste for most people. The issue with them is not their taste, or the actual act of consumption of them, it's the fact that their production necessarily involves the torture and killing of sapient beings.
If you can have "meat" without such effects (so, those fake vegan "meats"), then there is nothing wrong with it at all (I still prefer most of the time my rice, beans, tofu and TSP if only due to the cost but again, nothing wrong with it, quite the contrary).
I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don't choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn't want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.
Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain "meat" as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It's great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn't address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.
How I know it's a cultivated desire: it doesn't exist across cultures. Hell it doesn't exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I'm sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
Crab sticks are usually fake, but generally, fish is harder to immigrate accurately than other meats, and there's less demand for it since people in the west don't generally eat tons of fish anyway.
Less demand for real fish means less demand for imitation fish, though there is apparently a company somewhere making lab grown salmon and tuna.
Bravery has nothing to do with it. It tastes good, and there's no harm to any animals. So why not eat it? Denial for the sake of denial is not a virtue.
That's like saying that if you enjoy shooting people in video games, then you're one step away from shooting people in real life. I've been eating fake meats for almost a decade now, and I've never been tempted to eat real meat.
I know how horrible and senseless factory farming is, and I have images of the slaughtered seared into my memory from vegan documentaries. Why would I go back to that when I can have substitutes that are just as good, if not better?
I can't really answer the question of why, but the sample set of people I know who switch to vegetarianism and veganism bears out that the ones who rely in fake meats much more frequently switch back than those who focus on learning to cook foods that don't imitate meat.
On the counterargument, I did miss cheese quite a bit, and learning to culture my own vegan cheeses hasn't led to buying animal milk cheeses again, so ymmv
Good job but not everyone has the mental fortitude you have displayed. I know plenty of people who tried going vegan, ate the fake meat and egg stuff, and just went back to the real stuff for the taste
Anyways it's not about the individual level, it's more the social ie the social ingraining to have the form and experience of meat contributes to the "culture" and demand of meat
The fake stuff (and cultivated meat for that matter) are getting closer to parity every year. You don't go back to something "for the taste", if the alternative you switched to offers a near identical experience.
Okay but we aren't there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat "culture" have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others
Do you think that you could've gotten those people converted to an Indian diet, and they would've remained vegan? Getting people to go vegan in the first place is extremely difficult. Try getting them to go vegan and replace their diet with Indian food.
Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or "soy paneer" aka tofu to make it vegan)
Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
Meat is generally spiced more heavily in warm climates because it spoils faster and hot spices both preserves meat by killing bacteria and disguise a certain degree of spoilage.
I would be surprised if the trend towards hot spices in a country that is generally both warm and humid is because of a difference in palette rather than the reasons above.
So your whole point is a slippery slope fallacy. Gotcha.
18 years meatless and counting
If it would "be easy" for you to get back to consuming animal products, it's hard to imagine you're vegan at all.
Being called stupid and criticizing my decisions kept me from "being brave"
Like "You're not good enough until you are this much" bullshit. If that's the attitude, then fuck no. Why do I wanna go even further into things if y'all are assholes right off the bat. Like, no. fuck you. If it's this complicated then I am going to do what has been a life of hassle free eating. My guilt is very easily wiped away like that.
I'd argue that the fake meat stuff has hurt veganism to at least some extent because it's marketed so heavily and people think it's the only way to eat vegan. You can see how prominent the ”all vegan food is processed” and ”it's too expensive to be vegan” arguments have become, even in this thread.
The problem is that you're still fixated on the form and experience of meat. A full mindset change is more robust.
It's like how fake leather can help replace and reduce real leather usage, but if the trend of desiring leather died out in the first place, the whole problem is dropped altogether
I don't want to stop eating meat, I want to stop the exploitation and suffering of animals.
While I want to stop the exploitation of animals more than I want to eat meat, if there is a path that allows me to do both, I will have a preference for that path.
The same goes for leather. It's use isn't worth what has to be done to create it, but it is a fantastic material with a lot of versatility that's better than near all alternatives in plenty of applications. Fake leather and synthetic leather are wonderful innovations because we can enjoy the benefits without the negatives, and that's something to be encouraged rather than avoided.
I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I'm just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here
I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I've never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess
I'm not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I'm saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn't nicotine patches alone
not entirely, as leather is still a wildly useful fabric and material for many uses which synthetic leather can serve(to a greater or lesser extent, granted), but only in specific cases can meat not be replaced/not replaced effectively