...So you pick up a history book to figure out US's angle
From Peter Dale Scotts: American War Machine-Deep Politics, The Cia and the Global Drug Connection, and the Road to Afghanistan
TL:DR the US turned Burma-Laos and Thailand into a heroin growing triangle (The Golden Triangle) much like they did with the Mafia in Sicily and Marseilles.
The Drug traffickers and drug money became a huge way of CIA to implant bourgeois ideology and suppress communists and the growing popularity of the PRC. They even used ex-Nazis as agents for drug smuggling. It also gave US unfettered access to Myanmars tungsten reserves.
This enitre coalition was directed at China of course.
Congrats for quoting reactionaries in Thailand. Would you like to hear leftist local opinions?
Sure. I'll see for myself whether it falls into the bin of actual materialist analysis, or "Marxist" myth-making. There were countless "Marxists" who supported regime change in Hong Kong, Ukraine, Syria, and Libya.
My friend did a podcast with one of the leaders of the student protests. She's full commie and openly critical of libs and billionaires. I'll DM you and anyone that asks for it. It's my friend's podcast, so I'm hesitant to share to openly.
The website "Ugly Truth Thailand" has a good material, Marxist summary of Thailand, although the guy's a Trot. The same guy wrote "A Coup for the Rich", which has a good Marxist summary of recent Thai political history.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn is the one who runs "Ugly Truth Thailand", right?
I'm reading through his history. He has had a horrible track record with identifying US State Department operations in US-enemy states.
Back in September 2019, he called the events in Hong Kong a "grassroots uprising", [1] despite the fact that any materialist would have highlighted Jimmy Lai's media empire pushing propaganda for the movement, and Joshua Wang meetings with thee US State Department.
In 2011, he actually compares his opponents in Thailand to the supporters of the Libyan & Syrian governments, which is a telling admission. [2]
His father, Puey Ungphakorn, was the governor of the Bank of Thailand under Shinawatra. His brother, Jon Ungphakorn, is an NGO executive in Thailand. His mother was an English national, and he received his education at the University of London.
This family seems tied up in the exact imperialist-Left world that I've been criticizing.
I'll listen to your friend's podcast. I'm most interested to hear Thai communists discuss the degree to which the US State Department has infiltrated protest movements in Thailand. That is the question that must be reckoned with to avoid repeating the mistakes in Hong Kong, Ukraine, Libya, Syria, etc.
Also I just read your citations, and you're really pushing the literal meaning of his words. Honestly, lighten up with comrades a bit.
Damn, just imagine if academics attending a conference sponsored Gaddafi or Bash al-Assad! Luckily, he only attends US and UK sponsored conferences.
You must understand why it's hard for me to see trust the son of the top banker in Thailand - whose family is tied up in the same NGO networks that conspired to overthrow the governments in Syria, Libya, Ukraine, and Hong Kong - especially when he has never reckoned with the reality of US regime change through color revolution.
This is extraordinarily important because this thread is discussing whether the protests in Thailand are a color revolution.
You know you can be wrong about a handful of things sometimes, have a capitalist background, and have your analysis be more or less correct. Marx came from a bourgeois background, "Bakunin" said some anti semetic shit back in the day.
I'm not asking you to unquestingly absorb everything that Giles says. God knows I disagree with him on stuff. But for a pretty solid Marxist analysis on Thailand which a non Thai can understand easily, I think he's the best. He's fucking eons ahead of LandDestroyer.
Absolutely.
I'm sure he has done useful academic work. I do not trust him to identify US-sponsored color revolutions. This thread is determining to what degree the Thai protests are a US-sponsored color revolution.
Well by all mean find other Thai Marxists. 0.00% are on the side of LandDestroyer. Is this not obvious??
I'm working on it. The Marxist-Leninist party in Thailand (CPT) has been criminalized by both the current government & the previous government, which Giles' family played a central role in.
I'm def very critical of Giles. It's just incredibly weird to be so harsh on him yet take a right wing blog as gospel. Does this not make sense? Why dig deeply into the wording of a communist yet ignore actual lies from a reactionary?? Please don't ignore this one, because I keep needing to ask it.
What? Elaborate please.
Where have I taken a Right-wing blog as gospel?
I have stated four facts:
I have dug equally deep into Brian and Giles Ji Ungpakorn. The fact you call one a Right-winger and one a communist shouldn't dissuade me from doing my own research.
Brian is a worker, who does industrial design in Bangkok. He also freelance writes on issues in Southeast Asia. [1] I can't find any major government or capital connections for Brian yet.
Giles is an academic, whose family is closely-tied to finance & NGO operations in Thailand. He is the son of a well-decorated comprador bourgeoisie, who was the Bank of Thailand governor & a Member of the Order of the British Empire. [2]
I'd recommend scouring the internet for all dissident references to Puey Ungphakorn & Jon Ungphakorn. The language barrier makes this difficult, since the writings are primarily from US expats (like Brian) or compradors (like Giles).
As far as I can see, the whole thing is the iLAW, which is not the main player.
And in regards to you not reading Thai, ya no shit. Do you think that maybe the Thais know what's up in their own movement? Maybe a white person should be extra careful about judging an outside culture with limited knowledge?
And frankly, I've had many a fight and disagreement with Giles. But to make shit up about his family and then not bother to respond or apologize is absolutely shit. His family was not responsible for laws against communism.
Yes, I'm sure Thai people understand what's going on their country better than I do. And I have found Thai sources both defending and opposing the ongoing protests. Thai people are not a monolith.
Not when my country conspires within their borders. Same goes for Syria, Hong Kong, Libya, Ukraine, etc.
The American Left failed the world throughout the 2010's for its inability to distinguish popular uprising from color revolution. When the same institutions which supported these coups support the Thai protest, that must set off alarm bells in the minds of every American communist.
I'd love it if my government wasn't funding regime change operations in Thailand.
I literally never said they were.
I said his family held power during a government which criminalized the CPT. The fact that Giles was a "communist" and protected throughout the Thaksin Shinawatra government, while the CPT was criminalized, speaks volumes.
Don't fucking backtrack from your original words, you reactionary.
Why manipulate my quote? We are the only ones this far into the thread. You are only lying to yourself. I stand by my statement 100%. His family held influential roles in governments which criminalized the CPT. That is an undeniable fact.
I never said his family was "responsible" for anti-communism laws. They were complicit in a government which criminalized the CPT. Their specific orientation towards the CPT require further investigation. But the fact that Giles talks down to the CPT when they are banned in Thailand is informative [1]
His family has nothing to do with the banning of the CPT. Go find me a source in them being responsible or gtfo. Yes, he's a Trot and takes positions different than another party, as Marxists can differentiation their position. I don't expect anyone here to 100% take the side of Mao or Sanders.
Yet here you are, slandering Giles yet saying nothing bad about LandDestroyer whom regularly. praises the monarchy and army.
Please, I'm begging you: read what I am saying.
Also, this isn't a matter of "taking a different position" than MLs. The CPT was literally criminalized under the same government which uplifted the Ungpakorn family to high-ranking positions. I cannot imagine being a communist in a country where their Communist Party is criminalized, and not making that a primary issue. The only time he references the CPT is to criticize them.
Yes. I'm criticizing the academic with a well-connected family who's aligned with my country's interests on opposing the current government in Thailand. That is an issue which is relevant to me as a citizen of a country whose government wants to overthrow the Thai government and replace it with a client state. I don't find it worth my time to criticize a random blogger.
Source that his family was complicit?
Absolutely untrue. Are you not bored of making shit up?
Yet you buy into his analysis, while ignoring the views of multiple Thai communists whom I've sourced this discussion.