I didn't want to direct this question to Americans specifically because, at this point, other countries have shown support to Israel in one or the other way. If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets. Shit, I'm right now in the hospital but all I can think about is protesting anyway just to feel I did something to stop this madness.
Are you doing something about this? Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?
EDIT: So, buying Chinese stuff takes the USS Gerald Ford to Gaza’s coast. Also, TIL that that chocolate my cousin gave me when she was 20 and I was 5, (delicious stuff!) made me a slavist-ish. The fact remains, this genocide is being paid and supported by taxpayers money; of course, I was hoping that most of us didn’t pay taxes wishing for this. Thank you all for your responses, some of them were hard to swallow.
My country burns money, resources and human lives to enforce its hegemony on the other side of the planet while I only have health insurance through my crappy job and the infrastructure is crumbling everywhere. How do you think I feel?
Many are just trying to make the best out of what we have and it often feels like we have such little impact on these things happening across the country, let along in other parts of the world. The world population approaches 8 billion. Our impact is often meaningful in some way, but incredibly limited overall.
How can someone truly help with something across the world, like Ukraine/Russia and now Israel/Gaza, when conflict is constant and many also have to simply survive, in the face of entities that are capable of spending trillions of dollars.
DISGUSTING.
Prime minister of my country supports Israel because “they’re allowed to defend themselves”.
What is happening now, has nothing to do with defending themselves, it’s their mission to genocide. I cannot believe the entire world is fine with it. Western but also Arabian countries unfortunately.
In my opinion, “justice” does not exist. It never did. Because it seems the law doesn’t apply to Presidents and a country that purely stands for genocide.
It's never just been the US - Israel doesn't just have a whole bunch of enablers... said enablers also back the very idea of a modern-day Israel.
France, the UK, Germany, Australia, Apartheid-era South Africa all played their part in helping with all this - I guess the fact that it's all countries with histories that are deeply entwined with white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism is purely coincidence, eh?
I desire the end of America and indeed all capitalist states, ideally before they slide even further into fascism in the near future. Death to the Israeli state, and death to any states that support it.
In the US, speaking the truth about the Israel-Palestine ::cough::Palestinian genocide::cough:: war will get you cancelled by AIPAC astroturfers and useful idiots who just cancel who they’re told to cancel. That’s how they (the AIPAC, the military industrial complex, and AIPAC-run film industry..if you don’t believe me, why was Harvey Weinstein so friendly with ex-Mossad agents that he was able to use them against his opponents?) manufacture consent among normal people these days.
Additionally, 35 US states have anti-bds laws on the books punishing US citizens that choose not to buy products from Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws In many of those US states you can be fired from government jobs for refusing to buy Israeli products in your own personal life.
If you read the thread, or at least my responses, you would probably made a more conscious effort to answer my question.
I just love all these creative ways people find to say that they're imbeciles without saying it explicitly.
China meets the manufacturing needs for most of the world, it's economically not realistic to boycott them
That said, we still should boycott them, at least in principle.
It's really not that hard to boycott China, people just don't do it because they're selfish and would rather support an authoritarian regime than stand for what's right
I haven't eaten any cooked hot food since the HK protests because every appliance is made or parts majority made in China
I will eat sliced bread and beans the rest of my life to own the Chinese
Beans is one thing, but cold beans??? That's a step too far, I now uncritically support Xi.
Psh. You posuer. I've converted my life savings to yuan notes and am now keeping them under the bed to reduce the circulation of cash in the Chinese economy.
We paid them slave wages to make things for us but they didn't play fair and learned how to make things for themselves
In general I agree with you, but reality is also more nuanced. A blanket boycott can often harm the people you want to protect. A common question in the debate about Palestine and Uyghurstan and boycotts is what to do about companies that give equal opportunities to people from the targeted communities - i.e. companies that give jobs in the same terms to both Israelis and Palestinians or the Han Chinese and Uyghur people.
Tell me you haven't read any serious report about the situation in Uyghurstan (can we please drop the chinese "new territory" colonial designation? I don't think it helps anyone, including the Chinese position) without telling me you never read a serious report about the situation in Uyghurstan. There are several identified cases of the use of slave labor, but there are also lots of companies that had credible audits to show that at least on a superficial level they treat everyone fairly - and a huge chunk of places where the situation is as clear as mud.
Personally, I would choose to focus on things I ostensibly have some amount of control over. As an American, I have no effect whatsoever on Chinese laws or policy. However, I allegedly have power over my own country’s laws and policies, so I choose to expend my energy trying to end slave labor in America, which is legal if the person has been convicted of a crime.
Why would I spend the precious little free time and energy I have (between making enough money to pay rent and eat food) on something out of my control?
and supported by taxpayers money;
nah our national taxes don't pay for anything, a sovereign government prints fiat money before anyone pays any tax and part of what gives that money any real value is that it's accepted as payment for debts owed to that sovereign.
They print money for the government budget but that massively inflates the money supply so to counterbalance that inflation, they destroy all the money that was paid in taxes by their citizens
Taxpayer money funding government budget is fairly accurate
Taxpayer money funding government budget is fairly accurate
you can print money up to the natural resource+ labor output of a nation-state and nobody is printing that much money.
where did the 20,000 per person per year for all those years the US spent on its wars in iraq and afghanistan come from? it wasn't tax revenue.
It wasn't all tax revenue but taxes were definitely necessary for the US economy to not collapse while funding the war machine
good thing the US economy didn't collapse during those wars then...
I live in a country where people's been bornt in debt for decades. It definitely feels people's debt, particularly if you are poor.
If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets.
If I took to the streets over this, I would make protestors look bad because I have no experience, no social skills, no support network, and I'm a terrible rhetorician, especially when I am angry. Additionally, my family is fast to call the cops and has promised me that they would cooperate with the police if I ever got on their radar, so my presence would be a security culture issue.
Are you doing something about this?
Well, I have chosen not to work for companies that participate in such genocides, which is not a completely vacuous statement because they have sent me recruitment emails to design their fucking missiles! But frankly, I am fighting my own battles right now. I am desperately trying to find work. I am constantly fighting insurers to pay for the few times I ever muster up the courage to use my insurance. I am fighting my own goddamn family who will throw me to the fucking wolves if I can't afford the rent. I am fighting the urge to walk off into the woods and fucking die of embarrassment at having accomplished so little at my age.
So no, I'm not really doing anything. I'll cop to that. I've copped to worse, and at least for now I can live with being a hypocrite. Sorry if that's unsatisfactory.
Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?
I fucking HATE America, I fucking HATE world governments, and this just adds to the list of reasons why. Unsettled doesn't even begin to cover it.
Defeated and hopeless mostly. Almost the same as I felt funding the war in the middle east after looking at the casualties and reading testimonies from US soldiers. It's long weighed heavily on me that half of every dollar I'm required to pay to the government is used to kill people who have nothing to do with me, especially as someone whose worked since he was 16. The war in the middle east was met with the largest protests in US history at the time and nothing changed. We then elected a democrat who was given a noble peace prize, he kept the war going and killed many civilians with drone strikes. I don't even own a house and the rate at which my savings are stacking up, there's not much I can even afford to do. Welcome to the machine.
Americans are the biggest donors, but Britain, Germany, and to a lesser extent Australia and Canada, and a handful of non-German EU countries also give Israel a lot of money.
The only thing I'm dissatisfied with is their free hand with bombing civilians along with military targets. I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so, but they fancy themselves a western country, being better than terrorist Hamas. They can't let their anger take control. Bombing civilians undermines their legitimatecy, I think they should try and be as surgical as possible, like they did in previous rounds of fighting. Other than that, I fully support their desire to root out Hamas. Though conquering Gaza only has any merit to it if they decide to stay and govern it themselves, otherwise Hamas would just rise up again.
I think they should try and be as surgical as possible
How about this, remove the blockade on Gaza, give everyone there citizenship and become a secular state.
like they did in previous rounds of fighting
When has Israel not leveled civilian buildings? Have you not seen charts comparing Israeli casualties to Palestinian ones?
I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so
I think Palestinians should be the ones who should be angry for the way Israel has treated them since inception.
I have so much to say over this comment. I'll try to be concise.
remove the blockade on Gaza, give everyone there citizenship and become a secular state
- Israel doesn't trust Hamas. The blockade, which, mind you, is also enforced by Egypt, is meant to limit the group's ability to procure weapons. Water, food, fuel and other necessities are usually provided by both Israel and international help.
- Neither Gazans want Israeli citizenship, nor Israel wants Gazans to be its citizens.
- Religious and secular political forces quarrel in Israel daily. It can't just "become" secular. A big portion of Israelis don't want it to.
When has Israel not leveled civilian buildings? Have you not seen charts comparing Israeli casualties to Palestinian ones?
- If not for Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be way higher.
- Any civilian casualties are to be condemned. Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques. Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They're some 2.5 million people over 365km squared. It's very difficult to carry out any strikes without damaging hundreds of people. Yet, in the 2021 conflict, only 260 Gazans died as a result of strikes, despite hundreds if not thousands of shellings. Israel claims that at least 200 of those were militians. If that is not surgical, I don't know what is.
I think Palestinians should be the ones who should be angry for the way Israel has treated them since inception.
Read a little about the history of the conflict, as well as about peace talks and different offers that Israel made.
If not for Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be way higher.
Ok, why not give Palestinian their own iron dome?
Any civilian casualties are to be condemned. Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques. Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They're some 2.5 million people over 365km squared. It's very difficult to carry out any strikes without damaging hundreds of people. Yet, in the 2021 conflict, only 260 Gazans died as a result of strikes, despite hundreds if not thousands of shellings. Israel claims that at least 200 of those were militians. If that is not surgical, I don't know what is.
Kill yourself
Religious and secular political forces quarrel in Israel daily. It can't just "become" secular. A big portion of Israelis don't want it to.
And? Why is that a reason for Palestinians to be treated like second class 'citizens'.
Water, food, fuel and other necessities are usually provided by both Israel and international help.
Why does Gaza have a huge electricity deficit? Why is their water polluted? Why does Israel deliberately limit food to keep Gazans on a 'diet'.
Read a little about the history of the conflict, as well as about peace talks and different offers that Israel made.
You are a zionist pig and you should fucking kill yourself.
Israel doesn’t trust Hamas.
Then maybe Israel shouldn't have funded them.
The blockade, which, mind you, is also enforced by Egypt
The US-backed dictatorship in Egypt is doing the US's bidding? You don't say...
Any civilian casualties are to be condemned.
Israel hasn't made much distinction between combatants and non-combatants since 1949 - can't blame Hamas for playing by Israel's rules.
Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques.
Right, because there are vast tracts of unused real estate in one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, eh?
If that is not surgical, I don’t know what is.
There is no such thng as a "surgical" artillery shell, Clyde. And as for the claim itself... the IDF is no more trustworthy than the Apartheid security forces were.
Fuck Israel.
Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They're some 2.5 million people over 365km squared.
So weird that Palestinians would choose to live like this without the influence of any other party. They even built a huge wall around themselves to keep other people out.
Are you satisfied about they having a nuclear arsenal after this? It's not a rhetorical question, I'm actually interested in your thoughts about this.
I don't know, what does it matter? They don't even acknowledge it, nevermind about using it. The only instance in which they might use their nukes is the Samson Option, which looks like something any country would do.
It matters because it changes all logics in a war. In this case, I think it matters because you described them as angry, bombing civilians along with military targets. If they don't differentiate one of the other, the only thing stopping them from nuking the Gaza stripe is probably the inconvenience of being too close.
the only thing stopping them from nuking the Gaza stripe
The politics understander has logged on
Ah, I see. No, they're not that stupid. Even if nuking Gaza didn't affect them because of proximity, they wouldn't. They rely on American help too much, and struggle as they do with international forces. Nuking Gaza would leave them ostricized and heavily sanctioned, if not invaded.
but they fancy themselves a western country
They are. This is what the west is.
An ongoing genocide or a genocide in hindset? And what kind? It would largely depend. Often when we give people money and they happen to use that money to pay for misdeeds, some people come back and accuse us of financing that misdeed. On the contrary, in any situation on Earth at any time, we have to be prepared for any given situation to have unconforming parts and pieces. In this situation, it's not like the government gives us a contract that says "here, sign this to show you agree to what we're going to use your taxpayer money for". If they did, I wouldn't sign, because my ethics as a relationship anarchist extend to politics, but they're not playing by relationship anarchist rules, so I become something to squeeze money out of without explanation, and it becomes less understandable how any burden is at play, especially when people start pressuring us to conform and cheat the system so-to-speak. We can try our best though.
At any stage of this process are we being given a choice? There's the main problem to me. I agree with you that, at some point, we just should try our best. I believe this should include reclaiming some power back to the people.
I'm not sure if it constitutes genocide yet, but it's fair to say it's going that direction. For every dead group A, group B wants to kill 10 group A people, and vice-versa. There's two ways that can stop; either they bury the hatchet or one group is entirely wiped out.
As for how I feel about my government, actually kind of hopeful. I was expecting SNAFU but it's clear the Canadian government is actually having to consider the Palestinian perspective this time around.
