Okay so I looked it up and idk I agree. I would like to see if actual folks claiming to be victims come forward and what they say about it but I looked at the initial article and it all seemed very vague on that front?
I do think that power dynamics in this situation are probably a little more complicated than just “student” vs “teacher” or whatever but it’s also not enough to just claim ~role model~ status as proof of any significant power dynamic (which is just really vague in the context of the article that broke that - like does that mean that at the time this Morse guy was in any position of power? And if so, what did that look like at the time? Was it commonly accepted?).
On a much broader note, I feel like when it comes to people who are 18+ but in college, and I am speaking from experience here, there often seems to be a sense of “this person might have connections that make this student loan debt worth it” in regards to anxiety surrounding not just that debt but the ability to pay it off. And it does make college students vulnerable in ways that differ from children (which I am really bothered by this idea that adult college students are treated like fucking kids - they aren’t) but also provides people with power to come in and exploit them. I would say this has nothing to do with ~role model~ status but in my experience was wealthy, much older men trying to exploit my anxieties about future income and trying to convince me that they could help with connections to good jobs in my area, while implying I had to have some sort of sexual relationship with them to achieve that. I’m not getting those vibes from this story at all.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I think that validates your instinct that this is a hit piece while also recognizing that this can be a complicated topic.
Yes. You are probably more eloquent than me but I echo a lot of your sentiments. I think there’s a huge discussion to have on that and how college students are easily exploitable because of their economic situation but in a public liberal space with an obvious hit piece I don’t find that to be the place for this nuance and found it more acceptable to just say that it’s a hit piece. I’ve learned that focusing on nuance in hostile areas often just leads people to think I’m agreeing with the general premise of a smear or lie if I do that.
No that’s totally valid, I just jumped on because I do have experience with the sort of vague aspect of how being an adult in college but still in a disadvantaged/easily explored place in life can lead you down some really unfortunate shit. I still haven’t come out with my stories about that and I want to but I don’t want to really deal with a public response to that.
But yeah, I completely understand that we aren’t collectively ready for that conversation. And really it just feels like we are infantilizing college students in this story using woke me too language without any concrete input from anyone claiming to be a victim. I would rather hear that. So if anyone can point me to that, I’m all ears, but I haven’t seen any of that.
Also the whole ~role model~ discourse just reminds me of how people talk about female celebrities. Like when Miley Cyrus branded herself as publicly horny or whatever and everyone was like “omg these are the ~role models~ for our children.” It just doesn’t sit right with me. And literally anyone can be a role model, even a role model with a moderately sized platform, and that doesn’t seem to me to be enough to say that sex with that person is inherently exploitative.
Okay so I looked it up and idk I agree. I would like to see if actual folks claiming to be victims come forward and what they say about it but I looked at the initial article and it all seemed very vague on that front?
I do think that power dynamics in this situation are probably a little more complicated than just “student” vs “teacher” or whatever but it’s also not enough to just claim ~role model~ status as proof of any significant power dynamic (which is just really vague in the context of the article that broke that - like does that mean that at the time this Morse guy was in any position of power? And if so, what did that look like at the time? Was it commonly accepted?).
On a much broader note, I feel like when it comes to people who are 18+ but in college, and I am speaking from experience here, there often seems to be a sense of “this person might have connections that make this student loan debt worth it” in regards to anxiety surrounding not just that debt but the ability to pay it off. And it does make college students vulnerable in ways that differ from children (which I am really bothered by this idea that adult college students are treated like fucking kids - they aren’t) but also provides people with power to come in and exploit them. I would say this has nothing to do with ~role model~ status but in my experience was wealthy, much older men trying to exploit my anxieties about future income and trying to convince me that they could help with connections to good jobs in my area, while implying I had to have some sort of sexual relationship with them to achieve that. I’m not getting those vibes from this story at all.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I think that validates your instinct that this is a hit piece while also recognizing that this can be a complicated topic.
Yes. You are probably more eloquent than me but I echo a lot of your sentiments. I think there’s a huge discussion to have on that and how college students are easily exploitable because of their economic situation but in a public liberal space with an obvious hit piece I don’t find that to be the place for this nuance and found it more acceptable to just say that it’s a hit piece. I’ve learned that focusing on nuance in hostile areas often just leads people to think I’m agreeing with the general premise of a smear or lie if I do that.
No that’s totally valid, I just jumped on because I do have experience with the sort of vague aspect of how being an adult in college but still in a disadvantaged/easily explored place in life can lead you down some really unfortunate shit. I still haven’t come out with my stories about that and I want to but I don’t want to really deal with a public response to that.
But yeah, I completely understand that we aren’t collectively ready for that conversation. And really it just feels like we are infantilizing college students in this story using woke me too language without any concrete input from anyone claiming to be a victim. I would rather hear that. So if anyone can point me to that, I’m all ears, but I haven’t seen any of that.
Also the whole ~role model~ discourse just reminds me of how people talk about female celebrities. Like when Miley Cyrus branded herself as publicly horny or whatever and everyone was like “omg these are the ~role models~ for our children.” It just doesn’t sit right with me. And literally anyone can be a role model, even a role model with a moderately sized platform, and that doesn’t seem to me to be enough to say that sex with that person is inherently exploitative.