i've not seen someone defend kulaks before saying they're defending ukrainians. i wonder if they're literally defending kulaks or if they think kulak is like a ukrainian ethnicity or something
EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/lrydgs/communist_subs_on_reddit_should_be_banned_its_as/gop9v23/
so i was reading through the sources they gave to prove that stalin killed 40 million people, and holy shit this is ridiculous.
they give 3 different links 123 proving that 40 million people were killed by stalin.
The first link is the University of Hawaii. No sources and it only references itself. The figures they gave are just magnificent. "In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987" - a number even higher than the already discredited Black Book of Communism. Not to mention they claim that "61,000,000" people were killed in the Soviet Union. "Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these". Even worse, is somehow the USSR's now killed more than fucking China. Probably the first person in the world to say that. Again, not even the Black Book of Communism says that - the Black Book puts their death tolls at "as many as 25 million in the former Soviet Union, 65 million in China". The whole page is so out of whack. "Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 are due to lethal forced labor in gulag and transit thereto" and "As can be seen from the comparative total for terrorism, communists were much more discriminating in their killing overall, even to the extent in the Soviet Union, communist China, and Vietnam, at least, of using a quota system. Top officials would order local officials to kill a certain number of "enemies of the people," "rightists", or "tyrants"." Apparently there were literal quota systems for murders. No sources provided of course.
The next figure they give in the first source is this. I won't lie, I don't even know what this is trying to say. There are four labels and seven lines. At first I thought maybe it was meant to be China and the USSR, and showing their respective tolls, but that doesn't make sense because there's 7, not 8, of them. I know they're not all separate figures because then the total would add up to like 150 million or something - higher than the 110,000,000 they've claimed earlier. Here they say "As can be seen in the figure, communist forced labor was particularly deadly. It not only accounts for most deaths under communism, but is close to the world total, which also includes colonial forced labor deaths (as in German, Portuguese, and Spanish colonies)" so I'm guessing the bottom two lines both apply to "Camps/prisons" but why are they different values then? And why are there even two to begin with? I just literally don't understand this figure at all and I don't know if it's because I'm dumb or what so if someone understands it please explain it to me lol.
Second source is just an opinion piece on Chicago Tribune with zero sources provided which funnily enough doesn't say that Stalin killed 40 million, but actually says that communism overall killed 65 million. So I'm guessing the person who gave the link just read the headline and thought "65 million, oh and a picture of Stalin. They're saying that Stalin killed 65 million" or something like that. Throughout the rest of the article they don't mention anything else about death tolls so not really much else to say.
The last source they give is opens up by mentioning our short king's height and goes over a small list of different scholars "Most other estimates from reputed scholars and historians tend to range from between 20 and 60 million.". One of the sources openly admits to adding WW2 casualties into the Soviet death toll "Argumenti i Fakti estimated that the death toll directly attributable to Stalin’s rule amounted to some 20 million lives (on top of the estimated 20 million Soviet troops and civilians who perished in the Second World War), for a total tally of 40 million". Among the highly acclaimed historians in this list you can find: Robert Conquest, "In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties" and Norman Davies a Welsh-Polish (we do not claim him lol) historian who claims "50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties". EXCLUDING WARTIME CASUALTIES! The 1926 Soviet census puts a total population of the USSR at 147,027,915. The 1959 Soviet census puts the total population at 208,826,650. An increase of 61,798,735. So including WW2 casualties in 30 years 77 million, half of the entire soviet population, died and then jumped straight back up to increase their population by 61 million.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/lrydgs/communist_subs_on_reddit_should_be_banned_its_as/gopkpth/
i've not seen someone defend kulaks before saying they're defending ukrainians. i wonder if they're literally defending kulaks or if they think kulak is like a ukrainian ethnicity or something
EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/lrydgs/communist_subs_on_reddit_should_be_banned_its_as/gop9v23/ so i was reading through the sources they gave to prove that stalin killed 40 million people, and holy shit this is ridiculous.
they give 3 different links 1 2 3 proving that 40 million people were killed by stalin.
The first link is the University of Hawaii. No sources and it only references itself. The figures they gave are just magnificent. "In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987" - a number even higher than the already discredited Black Book of Communism. Not to mention they claim that "61,000,000" people were killed in the Soviet Union. "Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these". Even worse, is somehow the USSR's now killed more than fucking China. Probably the first person in the world to say that. Again, not even the Black Book of Communism says that - the Black Book puts their death tolls at "as many as 25 million in the former Soviet Union, 65 million in China". The whole page is so out of whack. "Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 are due to lethal forced labor in gulag and transit thereto" and "As can be seen from the comparative total for terrorism, communists were much more discriminating in their killing overall, even to the extent in the Soviet Union, communist China, and Vietnam, at least, of using a quota system. Top officials would order local officials to kill a certain number of "enemies of the people," "rightists", or "tyrants"." Apparently there were literal quota systems for murders. No sources provided of course.
The next figure they give in the first source is this. I won't lie, I don't even know what this is trying to say. There are four labels and seven lines. At first I thought maybe it was meant to be China and the USSR, and showing their respective tolls, but that doesn't make sense because there's 7, not 8, of them. I know they're not all separate figures because then the total would add up to like 150 million or something - higher than the 110,000,000 they've claimed earlier. Here they say "As can be seen in the figure, communist forced labor was particularly deadly. It not only accounts for most deaths under communism, but is close to the world total, which also includes colonial forced labor deaths (as in German, Portuguese, and Spanish colonies)" so I'm guessing the bottom two lines both apply to "Camps/prisons" but why are they different values then? And why are there even two to begin with? I just literally don't understand this figure at all and I don't know if it's because I'm dumb or what so if someone understands it please explain it to me lol.
Second source is just an opinion piece on Chicago Tribune with zero sources provided which funnily enough doesn't say that Stalin killed 40 million, but actually says that communism overall killed 65 million. So I'm guessing the person who gave the link just read the headline and thought "65 million, oh and a picture of Stalin. They're saying that Stalin killed 65 million" or something like that. Throughout the rest of the article they don't mention anything else about death tolls so not really much else to say.
The last source they give is opens up by mentioning our short king's height and goes over a small list of different scholars "Most other estimates from reputed scholars and historians tend to range from between 20 and 60 million.". One of the sources openly admits to adding WW2 casualties into the Soviet death toll "Argumenti i Fakti estimated that the death toll directly attributable to Stalin’s rule amounted to some 20 million lives (on top of the estimated 20 million Soviet troops and civilians who perished in the Second World War), for a total tally of 40 million". Among the highly acclaimed historians in this list you can find: Robert Conquest, "In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties" and Norman Davies a Welsh-Polish (we do not claim him lol) historian who claims "50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties". EXCLUDING WARTIME CASUALTIES! The 1926 Soviet census puts a total population of the USSR at 147,027,915. The 1959 Soviet census puts the total population at 208,826,650. An increase of 61,798,735. So including WW2 casualties in 30 years 77 million, half of the entire soviet population, died and then jumped straight back up to increase their population by 61 million.
LANDLXRDS 👏 ARE 👏 POC