Stop. You. Listen to me. I'm nonbinary and i'm going to enby-splain why I and other non-binary people have a problem with this sort of thing.
Enbies are not women "lite". Just have a month for women, it's cool. They deserve it. And then later, you can have a month for nonbinary creators. Stop lumping us in with women. We are not women.
I get the impulse to include us as a marginalized group, and in some IRL physical spaces "no mens here" is understandable, even desired. But please, we are a separate gender and there is no need for this here.
These things read to me, an enby, like cis people think of gender as still a binary:
Default: male
and non-default: not-male/feminine/otherness.
I don't want to be in the non-default category, i want to be in my own category :leslie-shining:
It's like if they tried to make black history month "POC history month". No! We already have a month for women! Just let them have that and give us our own thing!
I don't have a problem with the term womxn coming from a place of self-identification (assuming it's not done in a terfy way) but i do have a problem with expanding the gender of woman to include enbies instead of simply accepting we are a separate gender. At the same time you never see the expansion of men to include enbies - the limits of masculinity are as rigid as ever. There is no inclusion of an x in "Mxn" to be inclusive to masculine people, for example.
So it feels very hollow, like the Cis are saying: "look ladies, we've allowed you new ways to gender Otherness, including new words and pronouns! BTW Men, if you go 1 inch oustide the gender norms you're gonna be included in this other gender or labeled gay (a subset of the non-default gender) :) "
Do you have a particular take on transgender people being included in "LGBT"?
I'm not trying to imply a particular opinion, because I know that I don't know enough to take one. Would you say that is different or do you feel similarly?
trans people should definitely be included in "LGBT". For one, many people are both trans and are gay. If you're asking if i think there should be a gay history and a trans history month separately, i don't think so yet because the history of the liberation of those two in our culture are intertwined - Stonewall was started by a bisexual trans woman, trans people were naturally included in the original pride and both fought for acceptance and expansion of queer spaces.
It's possible that now that the upper class gays have their ability to get married and not be fired for being gay they'll turn on trans comrades and start leaving them behind. This is what lesbian terfs are, basically. Cursed, i know. Anyway, should trans history and gay history diverge appreciatively i would be fine with them having separate history month or realms of study. For now, gender and sexuality is a newish field anyway and seem somewhat linked so there really is no reason to separate the two.
BTW its a huge terf whistle to call for "dropping the T" from LGBT. They think trans people are not valid/real basically and "take away from gay rights". So even more reason to not try to separate gender and sexuality unity from the phrase. Trans people, many of whom are also gay in some way, started the fight for LGBT rights, and we all belong together.
These are all very good points. I really appreciate you spoon feeding us this stuff when it definitely isn't your job.
I'm not a terf and I didn't mean to make it sound like a dogwhistle. I wholeheartedly agree that we all belong together, and I love my trans comrades <3
I felt like I should add that so any terfs who happen to read this don't get the idea that they have an ally here.
It's alright comrade, i figured your questions were in good faith :) Just wanted to give you a heads up about that phrase since you seemed out of the loop :)
Stop. You. Listen to me. I'm nonbinary and i'm going to enby-splain why I and other non-binary people have a problem with this sort of thing.
Enbies are not women "lite". Just have a month for women, it's cool. They deserve it. And then later, you can have a month for nonbinary creators. Stop lumping us in with women. We are not women.
I get the impulse to include us as a marginalized group, and in some IRL physical spaces "no mens here" is understandable, even desired. But please, we are a separate gender and there is no need for this here.
These things read to me, an enby, like cis people think of gender as still a binary:
Default: male
and non-default: not-male/feminine/otherness.
I don't want to be in the non-default category, i want to be in my own category :leslie-shining:
It's like if they tried to make black history month "POC history month". No! We already have a month for women! Just let them have that and give us our own thing!
I don't have a problem with the term womxn coming from a place of self-identification (assuming it's not done in a terfy way) but i do have a problem with expanding the gender of woman to include enbies instead of simply accepting we are a separate gender. At the same time you never see the expansion of men to include enbies - the limits of masculinity are as rigid as ever. There is no inclusion of an x in "Mxn" to be inclusive to masculine people, for example.
So it feels very hollow, like the Cis are saying: "look ladies, we've allowed you new ways to gender Otherness, including new words and pronouns! BTW Men, if you go 1 inch oustide the gender norms you're gonna be included in this other gender or labeled gay (a subset of the non-default gender) :) "
Sorry sweaty, rigidity of m*le gender norms sounds like a m*n problem,
Do you have a particular take on transgender people being included in "LGBT"? I'm not trying to imply a particular opinion, because I know that I don't know enough to take one. Would you say that is different or do you feel similarly?
I love my trans comrades BTW
trans people should definitely be included in "LGBT". For one, many people are both trans and are gay. If you're asking if i think there should be a gay history and a trans history month separately, i don't think so yet because the history of the liberation of those two in our culture are intertwined - Stonewall was started by a bisexual trans woman, trans people were naturally included in the original pride and both fought for acceptance and expansion of queer spaces.
It's possible that now that the upper class gays have their ability to get married and not be fired for being gay they'll turn on trans comrades and start leaving them behind. This is what lesbian terfs are, basically. Cursed, i know. Anyway, should trans history and gay history diverge appreciatively i would be fine with them having separate history month or realms of study. For now, gender and sexuality is a newish field anyway and seem somewhat linked so there really is no reason to separate the two.
BTW its a huge terf whistle to call for "dropping the T" from LGBT. They think trans people are not valid/real basically and "take away from gay rights". So even more reason to not try to separate gender and sexuality unity from the phrase. Trans people, many of whom are also gay in some way, started the fight for LGBT rights, and we all belong together.
These are all very good points. I really appreciate you spoon feeding us this stuff when it definitely isn't your job.
I'm not a terf and I didn't mean to make it sound like a dogwhistle. I wholeheartedly agree that we all belong together, and I love my trans comrades <3 I felt like I should add that so any terfs who happen to read this don't get the idea that they have an ally here.
It's alright comrade, i figured your questions were in good faith :) Just wanted to give you a heads up about that phrase since you seemed out of the loop :)
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That's probably the answer I was looking for yeah.
I've heard some trans friends complaining about being left behind when it comes to LGBT as a movement though so there's that unfortunately.