So in the UK the tories and media keep saying the national debt is the highest its been since the ww2 (which is true of pretty much any year since the 80s). And that we need to raise taxes, tighten our belts etc to pay back what we borrowed to get us thru the pandemic.

Now I know this kind of treating a countries finances like household finances and talking about national debt like its credit card debt is disingenuous and just used as a way to justify squeezing people more than they are already.

But what I don't know with enough authority to be able to talk to people about it is why this is the case? How is national debt different and wtf is it? Who do we owe it to and do we even need to pay it back etc?

Ofc I know the whole thing is bullshit anyway any only exists to preserve the current power structure but let's leave that for now.

Be good to hear thoughts from someone who knows things.

    • Pezevenk [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Sigh. Look, this is gonna be my last reply., you can simply google all this stuff or idk ask someone, all of what I'm gonna say is uncontroversial info, none of it is opinion.

      First of all, "precursor" means "before". Except the book you linked to is literally about imperialism being a product of modern capitalism, so after.

      Second, yes, everyone is collecting US debt, all the time. This was explained multiple times. Ask any rando with a bond. Again, national debt isn't like a loan shark banging your door to get his money. It's a bunch of coupons and payments that are happening all the time for millions of different bonds that have been sold to millions of different entities, including entities that own thousands of different bonds purchased at different dates with different properties, due dates, and interest rates. All of these entities are pretty much automatically receiving what they are supposed to bit by bit regularly. The reason US debt is increasing is not because the US is ignoring the creditors and failing to repay (which would be a default) but because it is issuing more bonds and accruing more debt (often but not necessarily to the same entities) than it repays. Again, not by failing to pay up, but by getting NEW debt. The creditors aren't tapping their feet impatiently waiting for the US to decide to repay them, the US does repay them exactly when they expect to be repaid (which is why the US can have a stable AAA credit rating), it's just that they (or other creditors) are also lending more to the US by buying new bonds. These new bonds are in turn sold precisely because US bonds are extremely reliable, and the US regularly pays interest as well as the payments after the bonds expire all the time. And if they were ever short on money to pay the bonds they'd just print more.

      Third, a default is literally when you stop paying your debt. If they have never defaulted it means they've never failed to pay up debt. When you say "they will never have to default", then what you're saying is that they'll never fail to pay back debt. It's the opposite of what you are trying to say.

      • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        "highest" doesn't always mean "latest." if you think that imperialism only existed after captialism you're fucking wrong and rethink your position.

        your second paragraph was just a wall of bullshit.

        default means officially saying that you can't pay. the US will never have to default because if anyone feels like collecting and they don't want to pay they'll just invade or bomb them.

        adios.

        • Pezevenk [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          “highest” doesn’t always mean “latest.”

          Then read the book lol. Direct quotes from the book:

          We have seen that in its economic essence imperialism is monopoly capitalism. This in itself determines its place in history, for monopoly that grows out of the soil of free competition, and precisely out of free competition, is the transition from the capitalist system to a higher socio-economic order.

          [...]

          Monopolies, oligarchy, the striving for domination and not for freedom, the exploitation of an increasing number of small or weak nations by a handful of the richest or most powerful nations—all these have given birth to those distinctive characteristics of imperialism which compel us to define it as parasitic or decaying capitalism

          It's free and only 90 pages or so.

          default means officially saying that you can’t pay. the US will never have to default because if anyone feels like collecting and they don’t want to pay they’ll just invade or bomb them.

          Bonds have expiration dates and interest you have to pay. No one has to come and tell the US "hey you have to pay up". It's literally written on the bond. If the US stops paying that then it's a default, it doesn't even have to be "officially" announced by the party defaulting, the announcement is not the important part. If you can find just one case where the US failed to pay up these obligations by all means share it. Srsly this hurts my brain just google this stuff lol

          • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            We have seen that in its economic essence imperialism is monopoly capitalism. This in itself determines its place in history, for monopoly that grows out of the soil of free competition, and precisely out of free competition, is the transition from the capitalist system to a higher socio-economic order.

            this isn't at all in opposition to what i'm telling you. if you don't think that nukes are a form of capital you're not thinking

            • Pezevenk [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I have no clue how that is relevant. You're saying imperialism came before capitalism and that somehow this is what the book said. It is not.

              Also I asked you to give me one instance where the US failed to pay its bonds, and you posted an article of the US breaking pacts. That's not the same, pls learn the difference. Read your link. Where does it say "defaulted on debt"?

              Read the book here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/imperialism.pdf

              Read this to learn how bonds work: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/treasurybond.asp

              There is also bills and notes which are similar but shorter term than bonds, which last for years. Read this to learn about the rest of them: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/073113/introduction-treasury-securities.asp

              The US spends hundreds of billions of dollars of its budget for debt service, in particular debt interest is almost 10% of the federal budget. The US has an AAA credit rating, it wouldn't if it didn't pay up on the bonds. If it didn't, the US would have defaulted, it is literally the definition of defaulting, and that has never happened. Read the links. Again, none of what I'm saying is controversial.