Painting the chuds as misunderstood working class folk when even the most superficial class analysis of these types proves the exact opposite.
Isn't the CPGB-ML a complete joke that's full of TERFs?
Yes. Nevertheless, they persist. To be honest, any actual left party in the UK is basically nonexistent and irrelevant. The populace has decided that what they love is the tories, so all future opposition will reflect this forever.
I know i don't have much room to talk as a person in "America", but goddamn English people are housebroken
At least the average american might say something about ownership of guns or "freedom", English people won't stop telling you how much they love royal boot.
Yep
They also believe the rest of the rainbow are bourgeios, despite most of their members being out of touch traditional middle-class shitheadsJust generally scum of the fucking earth tbh
Nothing in that article was particularly controversial.
A large portion of Trump's base are politically backwards workers. The two of the four people who died at the Capitol were working class, one was a union leader. The only two people I know who attended the Trump rally were waitresses. Dismissing the Capitol mob as solely petit-bourgeois is selection bias.
There are politically backwards workers that we need to separate from reactionary forces. I don't understand what's controversial about that.
Edit: The article did fail to acknowledge that Ashli Babbitt bought a small business recently, and still branded her as "working class." So, that's pretty shitty.
The four people who were murdered at the Capitol
What the actual fuck. Get out with this dishonest fascist sympathizing. One woman got killed by cops. Here's the other three:
Boyland was trampled to death by people rushing to breach a tunnel entrance on the west side of the Capitol;[378] she was a radicalized follower of QAnon whose family had begged her not to attend.[379][380] Greeson had a heart attack outdoors on the Capitol grounds, and was declared dead at 2:05 p.m., shortly before the breach of the Capitol.[381][382] His family said he was "not there to participate in violence or rioting, nor did he condone such actions".[383] Philips died of a stroke at the hospital after splitting from his group at 10:30 in the morning.[382] There was no indication that Philips participated in the raid.[16][384]
Fuck off.
Edit:
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/01/the-class-composition-of-the-capitol-rioters-first-cut.html
https://hexbear.net/post/74460
The purpose of my statement is to show that a sizable portion of the Capitol mob was working class. The people who died represent a sample of the protest who were at the protest that have been wildly reported on. The way they died is not relevant to my point.
I mistyped, and I will edit my comment. There's no reason to be an asshole over nothing.
The purpose of my statement is to show that a sizable portion of the Capitol mob was working class.
Right. To generate sympathy for them. The fascists.
Acknowledging reality is not "sympathizing with fascists." Don't push nonsense.
Don’t push nonsense.
You claimed that a stroke victim and heart attack victim were murdered.
I already admitted my typo and corrected my error. Are you willing to do the same?
Trying to claim that me saying "there are politically backwards workers in the US" is "fascist sympathizing" is a pretty massive error.
I'm not going to fetishize the US working class as a bastion of progressive ideals. That doesn't stack up to reality.
Mr Philips had established a company selling cuddly kangaroos to Trump supporters, dubbing them ‘Trumparoos’.
The CEO of Fowlers Pool Service & Supply Inc., in Spring Valley, California, Ashli Elizabeth Babbitt, was one of five people who died at the Trump rally on Capitol Hill on January 6, 2021.
Two of the rioters who died were literally capitalists, they aren't working class, lmao
I will update my comment to clarify that two of the people in the mob were petit-bourgeois & two were working class. A valid criticism of this article is misrepresenting the class relationship of Ashli Babbitt.
What kind of working class person can afford to take a flight to DC, on a working weekday, sometimes on a private jet/charter flight to go protest election results?
What kind of working class person can afford to take a flight to DC
A flight to DC is $120. Also, you can drive.
on a working weekday
I took two days off work to campaign for Bernie in Iowa last year. I met several working class people who did the same.
I don't think you understand how working class people actually live lol
on a private jet/charter flight
How many people did this? Again, I think you are letting a headline completely shape your reality.
Chapos and making someone up in their head to get mad at, can you name a better combo?
I'm not gonna spend time reading the article
But historically, fascism has been a coming together of various social classes with conflicting interests under one dumb mf and his sham revolutionary rhetoric. don't get lost in the weeds. the whole thing was one reactionary political mass. the fact that workers were involved doesn't redeem the thing in any way, if anything it goes to show you just how deep within bourgeois ideology workers are.
the state of leftism right now is "we must support fascist imperialists in their struggle against fascist imperialists."
The article is saying that we are not in a fight against fascism right now.
Dimitrov characterised fascism in power as “the open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital”.
The germs of a fascist movement are to be found in every imperialist country, and yet fascism is not implemented. There are many reasons for this, but the most important reason is that it is not presently necessary to implement a naked, terroristic rule over the workers owing to the hopelessly reactionary and backward state of the workers’ movement.
This is convincing to me, since the vast majority of Finance Capital supported the results of bourgeois democracy.
Therefore, the task of communists is not a fight against encroaching fascism, but the construction of a revolutionary working class base. That requires separating the politically backwards workers from reactionary forces, rather than waging war against politically backwards workers - which is required in a fight against fascism.
The forces on the Left who advocate for closing ranks and preparing for fascism misunderstand our moment.
the state of leftism right now is “we must support fascist imperialists in their struggle against fascist imperialists.”
You should read the article before commenting on the article.
I wasn't really commenting on the article. I'm criticizing your assumption that because there are workers within trump's base, that somehow makes things better.
The article isn't bad. I agree with much of its analysis on fascism. If anything, it seems to be a criticism of liberals and social democrats who's only aim is universal healthcare in the US.
But as Dimitrov said, the reason why fascism doesn't exist is because it's not presently necessary. I'll stand by my last line. 1/6 was an uprising of fascists against other fascists. the line between bourgious dictatorship and fascism is very blurry. its just two forms of the same thing.
Yea we shouldnt close ranks(because we dont really have ranks to close). we need to be more working class oriented. but none of that could take away from the dire situation of today's america.
I’m criticizing your assumption that because there are workers within trump’s base, that somehow makes things better.
You must have misread what I said. All I said was that this article wasn't controversial, and dismissing the Capitol riots as "petite-bourgeois" completely ignores the reality of political backwardness in the US working class.
You took the worst possible interpretation of what I said, then made assumptions about what I meant, all to argue about something that we agree on...
I'm really not trying to argue with anyone but you're not exactly getting my point, comrade. I dont think I misread what you said.
it's the assertion that we are not fighting fascists that bugs me about you and the article. you're trying to make a point out of the fact that many of trump's base are working class, and many of the folks on 1/6 were working class. I get the sense that this is a point of optimism for you. it's not to me.
the reality is, fascism as dimitrov and Zetkin have understood it have utilized the political backwardness of workers. the fact that they're ignorant and working against their self-interest doesnt make them not fascist.
and on top of that I'm saying the establishment which those on 1/6 were fighting against arent exactly distinct from fascists either.
theres a liberal writer named Jason Stanley who's written about fascism. what he said which has changed my mind on fascism is this: we think of fascism today as being a regime(failed regimes in fact, as we've defeated all historical regimes save for franco), but if we think of fascism as being a political order which reproduces itself with every crisis, then america might damn well be fascist.
during the days of McCarthy, comrades were legally required to register themselves with the government if they had ever been members of a communist party. failure to do so would land them in jail. being registered often meant losing their jobs, or even criminal prosecution.
in the 60s, the supreme court declared those laws to be in violation of the 5th amendment.
this might give you an optimistic sense of the security of your civil liberties, BUT, today we live in a world where nobody has to register. everything you like or retweet on Twitter is accesible, everything you have saved on iCloud or dropbox is legally accessible by the government.
maybe in the next century, once all the tensions of this current one are resolved, our courts might offer citizens privacy online. but in our lifetime, if leftism gains genuine strength, our leaders(the authentic ones at least) will be persecuted with ease. without any new laws.
that's why I'm saying this distinction between fascist and liberal rule is useless. that's why I'm saying the fact that many within trump's and biden's base being working class is meaningless.
things look bleak no matter how you look at it.
Lol imagine siding with the Dems. This comment is dedicated to the brave mujahideen fighters of America.
Lol never siding with dems, this was a fantastic day of watching two factions of reactionaries eating each other and laughing. Would not have cried in the slightest if the entire thing burned down. I care nothing for the magic democracy building, but equally I'm not gonna shed tears for a crowd made up of the worst bosses you've ever had, with no unifying ideology except rabid, directionless anticommunism, fucking around and finding out a thousandth of the pain and injury that leftist protesters had inflicted on them over the summer.
