Earlier today a vegan made a post with a white supremacist dog whistle by satirizing a person who's people "have been eating dog for thousands of years". Another Indigenous person and I did our best to call out the white supremacist nature of the discussion, so the poster later edited the title to specifically reference European people, which may have been well intentioned but only served to gaslight us by making it look like we were over-reacting and looking to be offended.
I came here for the leftism, and stayed for the Trans Rights. I'm a 2-spirit, native leftist. I have myriad reasons why I may or may not choose or even have the choice of veganism and any moralizing or condescension that comes from white vegans is an extension of over 500 years of an imposition of an alien value system which is profoundly disconnected from this land and the plants and animals which are our blood relations.
I'm not watching any videos posted by vegans. Y'all have been terrible with content warnings so I don't trust any links. You can give haircuts humanely.
Animals have sex too. If you have a male and female together, you'll get a baby. It's only with truly monsterous levels of selective breeding that we've created a few breeds that need insemination. Removing calfs is optional. All animals produce a surplus. We've spent centuries finding ways to increase that surplus.
We have guided chicken evolution into a new niche of a symbiotic relationship with farmers, providing eggs in exchange for food, safety, comfort, and medical care. All species have weaknesses, but a major concern of chicken farmers is providing extra calcium.
Arguing about specific conditions that can be changed doesn't advance your position when we're discussing a post-capitalist world where we can change those conditions.
I mean veganism is about trying to eliminate the exploitation and suffering of animals for human gain so if you're able to devise some system that has no exploitation of suffering that still lets you consume animal products then crack on but why bother coming up with some post-capitalist hypothetical system when we already have the means to eliminate animal suffering and exploitation by just not using animal products.
We've had sustainable, ethical relationships with wild and domesticated animals since before we were human. While those relationships no longer predominate, they still exist.
We do not have the means to eliminate animal cruelty through individual action. Boycotts don't work. That's why we've always imposed the requirement for change on political institutions and systems of production. Our consumption patters are based on innumerable factors and you can not fix any problem by focusing on one, single factor to force people into changing their consumption.
I thought we were talking about a post capitalist world and a vision of socialism not on boycotts and how to reach this post capitalist world. I probably made my point badly but what I'm trying to say is if you're envisaging a socialist world with ethical relationships with animals, why would you envision one where you have to come up with a way to consume animal products ethically when you can just envision a world where you don't use animal products at all.