The movie was widely written by Black South Africans, only 4 years after the release of Nelson Mandela. Many of the writers on the film say that Scar is supposed to represent imperialist interests, Mufasa is the traditional African rule, while Simba represents Nelson Mandela coming back from prison and exhile to rule and overthrow the imperialists and rule their world better. I usually hate looking at author's intent, but I find it to be essential to understanding the Lion King.
The Hyenas represent the imperial core, starving and doing terrible under the rule, but also having hopes of being as powerful as Scar. Scar is a good representation of facism when you REALLY think about it.
that really seems like a stretch especially as the film far closer follows the themes of macbeth or hamlet or any other propaganda about divine right of kings
the patriachal care along with predation offered by Mufasa is almost exactly the feudal ideological role of the nobility and his speach about the circle of life is the feudal notion of everyone having their assigned role, rights and responsibilities. Scar by killing Mufasa goes against the natural order and thus the entire system is upset. The divine right of kings espouses that when a king is killed or usurped there will be storms and nature will be thrown out of balance - as depicted in Macbeth. Then upon the return of the rightful king the natural balance is restored. So the plot of the film very closely follows the doctrine of divine right of kings
As a metaphor for apartheid it just doesn't fit very well only so far as Mandela good, racism bad. The film makes great emphasis on Simba personally coming from a royal lineage which really doesn't fit Mandela. If the plot is about Mandela or apartheid why doesn't it in any meaningful way touch upon those themes or ideas
Both of you can be correct. Lot's of anti imperialist movements and regimes are steeped in bad ideology/class politics. You can oppose a imperial overlord because you believe you should be the overlord. You see this alot in liberal nationalist movements.
^^^^^^this. I'll write a more detailed response, but this is completely true. I DO NOT like Iran or Russia politically whatsoever, they objectively fucking suck and I'm not willing to debate that. However, much of this board's support of both of these nations is based in just how destructive the counter-forces are to the rest of the world. I do not believe people on this board saying that Russia invading some of the most economically important parts of Ukraine is just "freeing them from Nazis". The Russians in Ukraine DO deserve protection, however it's delusional to think the Russian state is giving protection on solely moral grounds.
However as flawed as Russia and Iran are, even in their overall ideology of what I'm about to praise, they believe in some form of national self determination that leaves the people of Donbass or Palestine infinitely more prepared for succeeding if they win the fight. Supporting these nation's overall support of national self determination over overwhelming foreign influence is good, even if the people use their self determination for bad.
Where are you getting this council of black African writers from? IMDb say it was written by Irene Mecchi, Jonathan Roberts, and Linda Woolverton all of which are white Americans.
So people who had nothing to do with the plot or themes, got it. It’s Disney monarchist propaganda regardless of what some minor musical writers thought
I think it's kinda short sighted to assume that minorities who got lesser credits had no impact on the story. We're literally talking about a musical, where the music is key to the themes. Lyric writers are essential in musicals.
So yes, they are authors who are able to have an opinion on what their collective work means. It's art, there is no correct interpretation of it. Their opinions on their own work are worth considering, regardless of how much you want to write off lyricists in a musical. It is a clone of Macbeth, and has all the flaws that come with that, maybe Disney even intended those flaws. But that doesn't take away from how essential lyrics are in a musical, and how those people can have specific intent for the story.
Do you have a source (or names?) for the claim about the movie being "widely written by black South Africans", because as others here have noted, the 3 credited screenwriters are all white Americans. I briefly looked up about half of the "Story by" credits, and they all seemed to be white Americans. This feels like an apocryphal story.
Scar is very much of the ruling class and uses and exploits an underclasses anger at the status quo to gain personal power
common red scare trope. Scar didn't get a chance to correctly portray the uprising from his perspective. you only saw the bourgeoisie's side/telling of it
hyenas are local to africa they are not a foreign power idk why you are fighting for the divine right of kings through simba so hard , he didn't even wear eyeliner like scar did
He explicitly tells the starving hyenas that they will be seizing all of the kingdom and distributing it amongst them, that they will never go hungry again. That the “natural order” with lions at the top will be upended permanently. He is coded as a leftwing revolutionary, as gay, as dark skinned and “other” and the marching in “Be Prepared” is based off red square parades
and the marching in “Be Prepared” is based off red square parades
no it's not it's a shot for shot reference to triumph of the will. Even the lighting is an effect from nazi rallies
watch it again Scar is clearly not concerned with the wellbeing of the hyenas nor does he value their inteligence or input. The hyenas are a pretty obvious analogy to the brownshirts or freikorps given the explicit fascist imagry of Scar's song
Scar is clearly not concerned with the wellbeing of the hyenas nor does he value their inteligence or input
Neither does Stalin in anti-communist propaganda care about the worker. Remember you seem to keep forgetting this is monarchist propaganda told from the perspective of a reactionary who believes all leftwing leaders are Machiavellian self-interested monsters. Scar is portrayed how the right sees communists. You keep using the text to try make a point while ignoring that the text has bias
Monarchists/Liberals also love conflating fascism and communism as the same thing, so the mixing of fascist and communist themes is deliberate.
You aren’t gonna make me think your Disney monarchist Hollywood propaganda is woke
I don't think it's woke to have nazis be the villains in the movie that was very standard behavior at the time. Indiana Jones is not woke
Scar is not real the Scar of the text is the only Scar there is. And the Scar of the text is a royal dissatisfied with not being head of the monarchy who recruits disaffected hyenas (animal type is a big theme in lion king the hyenas are predators just like lions and that is relevant here) his offer to hyenas to eat all they want is analogous to offering to let his supporters kill and rob all they want. Again fitting the hyenas being a freikorp stand in. There are no communist themes scar offers nothing to the Hyenas that you couldn't find promised on a nazi propaganda poster
I have already pointed out how monarchist the film is but Scar is not supposed to be a communist.
Frankly it makes more sense to say Long John Silver is meant to be a communist or even Scrooge in fact here we go "Scrooge's ruthlessness and the way he forces people to live in draughty houses with no food is a clear reference to anti-communist tropes, Scrooge is meant to be stalin all the stuff about him being a capitalist is just the state capitalism allegation".
You can't just take a villain in a tv show and say "they're a communist all the explicit textual evidence portraying them as clearly not a communist is just propaganda"
I disagree Scar is very much of the ruling class and uses and exploits an underclasses anger at the status quo to gain personal power.
Like how Cortez turned a rebellion against the aztecs into a conquest
The movie was widely written by Black South Africans, only 4 years after the release of Nelson Mandela. Many of the writers on the film say that Scar is supposed to represent imperialist interests, Mufasa is the traditional African rule, while Simba represents Nelson Mandela coming back from prison and exhile to rule and overthrow the imperialists and rule their world better. I usually hate looking at author's intent, but I find it to be essential to understanding the Lion King.
The Hyenas represent the imperial core, starving and doing terrible under the rule, but also having hopes of being as powerful as Scar. Scar is a good representation of facism when you REALLY think about it.
that really seems like a stretch especially as the film far closer follows the themes of macbeth or hamlet or any other propaganda about divine right of kings
the patriachal care along with predation offered by Mufasa is almost exactly the feudal ideological role of the nobility and his speach about the circle of life is the feudal notion of everyone having their assigned role, rights and responsibilities. Scar by killing Mufasa goes against the natural order and thus the entire system is upset. The divine right of kings espouses that when a king is killed or usurped there will be storms and nature will be thrown out of balance - as depicted in Macbeth. Then upon the return of the rightful king the natural balance is restored. So the plot of the film very closely follows the doctrine of divine right of kings
As a metaphor for apartheid it just doesn't fit very well only so far as Mandela good, racism bad. The film makes great emphasis on Simba personally coming from a royal lineage which really doesn't fit Mandela. If the plot is about Mandela or apartheid why doesn't it in any meaningful way touch upon those themes or ideas
Both of you can be correct. Lot's of anti imperialist movements and regimes are steeped in bad ideology/class politics. You can oppose a imperial overlord because you believe you should be the overlord. You see this alot in liberal nationalist movements.
^^^^^^this. I'll write a more detailed response, but this is completely true. I DO NOT like Iran or Russia politically whatsoever, they objectively fucking suck and I'm not willing to debate that. However, much of this board's support of both of these nations is based in just how destructive the counter-forces are to the rest of the world. I do not believe people on this board saying that Russia invading some of the most economically important parts of Ukraine is just "freeing them from Nazis". The Russians in Ukraine DO deserve protection, however it's delusional to think the Russian state is giving protection on solely moral grounds.
However as flawed as Russia and Iran are, even in their overall ideology of what I'm about to praise, they believe in some form of national self determination that leaves the people of Donbass or Palestine infinitely more prepared for succeeding if they win the fight. Supporting these nation's overall support of national self determination over overwhelming foreign influence is good, even if the people use their self determination for bad.
Where are you getting this council of black African writers from? IMDb say it was written by Irene Mecchi, Jonathan Roberts, and Linda Woolverton all of which are white Americans.
Musicians who also wrote on the Lion King.
So people who had nothing to do with the plot or themes, got it. It’s Disney monarchist propaganda regardless of what some minor musical writers thought
I think it's kinda short sighted to assume that minorities who got lesser credits had no impact on the story. We're literally talking about a musical, where the music is key to the themes. Lyric writers are essential in musicals.
So yes, they are authors who are able to have an opinion on what their collective work means. It's art, there is no correct interpretation of it. Their opinions on their own work are worth considering, regardless of how much you want to write off lyricists in a musical. It is a clone of Macbeth, and has all the flaws that come with that, maybe Disney even intended those flaws. But that doesn't take away from how essential lyrics are in a musical, and how those people can have specific intent for the story.
Do you have a source (or names?) for the claim about the movie being "widely written by black South Africans", because as others here have noted, the 3 credited screenwriters are all white Americans. I briefly looked up about half of the "Story by" credits, and they all seemed to be white Americans. This feels like an apocryphal story.
Check the video I posted in my comments, it has the sources.
common red scare trope. Scar didn't get a chance to correctly portray the uprising from his perspective. you only saw the bourgeoisie's side/telling of it
Scar made a deal with foreign power (hyenas). He got power and they were allowed to steal natural resources.
hyenas are local to africa they are not a foreign power idk why you are fighting for the divine right of kings through simba so hard , he didn't even wear eyeliner like scar did
Different region. Scar also simply did a palace coup and used foreign armed forces to solidify his power.
This is how all communist revolutions are framed by the right. They don’t think real communism exists, it’s always a bad faith cover for a power grab
whilst that is a common anti-communist trope scar is not a communist nor is there any indication whatsoever that he is meant to represent communism
He explicitly tells the starving hyenas that they will be seizing all of the kingdom and distributing it amongst them, that they will never go hungry again. That the “natural order” with lions at the top will be upended permanently. He is coded as a leftwing revolutionary, as gay, as dark skinned and “other” and the marching in “Be Prepared” is based off red square parades
no it's not it's a shot for shot reference to triumph of the will. Even the lighting is an effect from nazi rallies
watch it again Scar is clearly not concerned with the wellbeing of the hyenas nor does he value their inteligence or input. The hyenas are a pretty obvious analogy to the brownshirts or freikorps given the explicit fascist imagry of Scar's song
Neither does Stalin in anti-communist propaganda care about the worker. Remember you seem to keep forgetting this is monarchist propaganda told from the perspective of a reactionary who believes all leftwing leaders are Machiavellian self-interested monsters. Scar is portrayed how the right sees communists. You keep using the text to try make a point while ignoring that the text has bias
Monarchists/Liberals also love conflating fascism and communism as the same thing, so the mixing of fascist and communist themes is deliberate.
You aren’t gonna make me think your Disney monarchist Hollywood propaganda is woke
I don't think it's woke to have nazis be the villains in the movie that was very standard behavior at the time. Indiana Jones is not woke
Scar is not real the Scar of the text is the only Scar there is. And the Scar of the text is a royal dissatisfied with not being head of the monarchy who recruits disaffected hyenas (animal type is a big theme in lion king the hyenas are predators just like lions and that is relevant here) his offer to hyenas to eat all they want is analogous to offering to let his supporters kill and rob all they want. Again fitting the hyenas being a freikorp stand in. There are no communist themes scar offers nothing to the Hyenas that you couldn't find promised on a nazi propaganda poster
I have already pointed out how monarchist the film is but Scar is not supposed to be a communist.
Frankly it makes more sense to say Long John Silver is meant to be a communist or even Scrooge in fact here we go "Scrooge's ruthlessness and the way he forces people to live in draughty houses with no food is a clear reference to anti-communist tropes, Scrooge is meant to be stalin all the stuff about him being a capitalist is just the state capitalism allegation".
You can't just take a villain in a tv show and say "they're a communist all the explicit textual evidence portraying them as clearly not a communist is just propaganda"