That is the end goal of our movement though, the economic stage of "communism" will entail a horizontal structure of the society. Just because it's unimaginable now, doesn't mean it won't be after god knows how many years of socialism.
Absent powerful capitalist and colonial forces seeking to re-establish themselves, a late-stage Marxist-Leninist society would look approximately horizontal.
The only real hierarchical structures worth preserving are ones that follow from natural deviations in human capabilities and desires. Basically just deferring authority to subject matter experts and not letting 8 year olds determine they want candy for every meal.
Some Marxists argue that decentralized production leads to exchange which leads to commodity production.
This is a bad argument because there's lots of ways to move things that aren't exchange (Graeber lists a few in Dawn of Everything), but lots of Marxists make it.
and then marxists will have a refutation for that refutation, and it goes on and on and on
IRL frameworks will always have more viability than the theoretical, even if the theoretical is right its implementation must occur in order to actually approve it
needless to say i hope world socialism will have lots of variety in order to create the most effective economic system while being owned by the workers and not held back by previously necessary frameworks
what tendency am I if i don't think it'll just wither away, but abolishing states while capitalist ones are still around (certainly not when they're hegemonic) isn't viable?
The state going away comes from the analysis that states are tools of class suppression and that if there are no classes, the state loses its reason to exist.
There are lots of obsolete institutions that persist through their obsolescence. Institutions are self perpetuating. The state will have to be destroyed.
Uh, no, communism is not anarchy. Anarchists want no leaders and horizontality. Communists still want administration. This is how many MLs throughout history have understood it.
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That is the end goal of our movement though, the economic stage of "communism" will entail a horizontal structure of the society. Just because it's unimaginable now, doesn't mean it won't be after god knows how many years of socialism.
It is not.
It's not the end goal. The end goal is to free our creative labor for other things. There will still be administration though.
Absent powerful capitalist and colonial forces seeking to re-establish themselves, a late-stage Marxist-Leninist society would look approximately horizontal.
The only real hierarchical structures worth preserving are ones that follow from natural deviations in human capabilities and desires. Basically just deferring authority to subject matter experts and not letting 8 year olds determine they want candy for every meal.
Some Marxists argue that decentralized production leads to exchange which leads to commodity production.
This is a bad argument because there's lots of ways to move things that aren't exchange (Graeber lists a few in Dawn of Everything), but lots of Marxists make it.
and then marxists will have a refutation for that refutation, and it goes on and on and on
IRL frameworks will always have more viability than the theoretical, even if the theoretical is right its implementation must occur in order to actually approve it
needless to say i hope world socialism will have lots of variety in order to create the most effective economic system while being owned by the workers and not held back by previously necessary frameworks
Graeber is an anarchist and is not a legitimate source. He literally believes people are not conscious.
what? when did graeber say this? legitimately interested.
It was in an interview, but I can't find it.
Anyway:
https://nonsite.org/back-to-work-review-of-david-graebers-bullshit-jobs/
Hey, if you hate me so much you find my day old comments and troll post on them you should probably just block me
I don't hate you, though. I'm just replying 'cause it's in my Inbox.
Uh, no, there would stilll be leadership and administration.
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what tendency am I if i don't think it'll just wither away, but abolishing states while capitalist ones are still around (certainly not when they're hegemonic) isn't viable?
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There are lots of obsolete institutions that persist through their obsolescence. Institutions are self perpetuating. The state will have to be destroyed.
what i think they mean is that they will be taken apart naturally after we have effectively mobilized the working class
a politically educated working class is the best way to have a strong pace to communism
I think you agree with the private thoughts of most communists in leadership in AES states.
Uh, no, communism is not anarchy. Anarchists want no leaders and horizontality. Communists still want administration. This is how many MLs throughout history have understood it.
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That's not what other anarchists tell me. It would be nice if anarchists agreed on something.
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Doesn't matter. There's no one template for anarchism or anarchists, hence, they can believe anything.
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I don't. You misunderstand me.
oh snap
You got me.