i tried searching through some databases and no like actual research reports came up on it, so like can we just use that as a be-all-end-all?

    • booty [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      you know, its really difficult to say whether iraq has weapons of mass destruction. idk dude. i think taking a totally neutral stance on this issue is the right way to go, because nothing bad could possibly happen as a result of this narrative

        • booty [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          The official consensus

          The official consensus by the US and its allies, yes. The official consensus among muslim countries is, "what genocide, what the fuck are you talking about dude"

        • RedDawn [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          the official consensus is that there is a genocide happening

          No, it’s not. Practically nobody is saying this outside of the US and five eyes.

      • chadhominem [comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Thinking the US would ever invade and/or engage in a hot war type scenario with China is baby brain shit. Also, to think the US would need to conjure up a global genocide conspiracy in China to engage in a cold war (which some would argue has already been going on since the 60's) is also dumb dumb shit.

        China & the US are in a historically unprecedented, globally encompassing and intertwined economic human centipede who's existence depends on one another and as long as the countries respective oligarchs pockets are getting greased nothing is going to happen. And no, this isn't the same as "well everyone thought after WW1 there wouldn't be a WW2 because our economies were so interconnected diarrhea noises"

        I share the same sentiment above - having a position on this is pointless. You're weird if you're outspoken about this trying to prove a genocide - you're even weirder defending China. The only fact we have at hand is that the US kills Muslims every day. If China is doing the same, we couldn't (and fucking shouldn't) do anything about it. All we can do is fight to end the US war machine. It's a pointless thought experiment.

        • booty [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          look dude, fundamentally i just think the truth is important. thats all there is to it. stop rambling at me you fuckin weirdo

          • chadhominem [comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Yeah no shit and that’s exactly what the comment was aiming for that you made your goober comparison to the Iraq war on

            • booty [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              "we should push back against bullshit narratives spun by the US, because historically when they take root it leads to disaster" is pretty simple to understand, idk how you're having so much trouble with this

    • RedDawn [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      It’s really not at all difficult to say because even the most exaggerated claims don’t rise to meet the level of genocide. There’s not even a question of whether significant numbers of people are being killed. There aren’t, even people like Zenz aren’t alleging that this is happening. The most egregious accusations are sterilization which there is no evidence of, and mostly even the people alleging “sterilization” (again like Zenz) say they are actually talking about IUDs which is not sterilization at all.

      • Mardoniush [she/her]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Looks like a standard domestic intelligence sweep in an area with an active terrorist insurrection (Bulletin 20 indicates via a quick estimate that at least 10,000 active islamist insurrectionaries exist in the region.)

        The only document I see that posits any major concern is bulletin 14, but I'd need to know if those are actual standard weekly numbers or the number of suspicious persons caught up in the initial sweep (I suspect the latter looking at the numbers in bulletin 20.) A lot also depends on if "sent to vocational training" means generally detained for a year or applied to one of the day facilities we know exist, and in what proportion.

        Additionally, the described camp conditions, if adhered to, are actually better than I had expected. Equal to a low security reformist prison in Europe. Note for example that communication with family is mandated.

        Now I'm not saying that this is a good thing. China has clearly detained at least fifty thousand people for at least a year in a re-education camp, and is going about this in a way I'd deeply criticise if it was, say, coalition forces in Iraq (oh wait, they did far worse).

        There are serious issues here about forced cultural assimilation and labour with people who might be extremist but not active politically. Additionally I have no doubt that Han Chauvinism drives wrongful arrests and police excesses take place in these facilities because even in China ACAB.

        I think there's a lot of room to criticise these facilities for what they are, an overly authoritarian and wrong-headed way to secure a population that is ripe for CIA and Saudi radicalisation (And which has been badly managed by CPC administration in the area, these things never appear in a vacuum ) while acknowledging that this isn't a genocide and is a better and more humane counter-insurgency strategy than the US has ever done