"Only the white man possesses the creativity lobe, all other races can only produce lesser imitations of his works." - a thing liberals actually believe but they're totally not racist because they like Hamilton
"The Russians never invent anything. All they have, they’ve got from others. Everything comes to them from abroad—the engineers, the machine-tools. Give them the most highly perfected bombing-sights. They’re capable of copying them, but not of inventing them. With them, working-technique is simplified to the uttermost. Their rudimentary labour-force compels them to split up the work into a series of gestures that are easy to perform and, of course, require no effort of thought." - Adolf Hitler
The "stolen IP" story is fun because it represents an unstated assumption that only the West has good ideas.
When their years of long-term thinking and investment in R&D pay off, will the people kvetching today be willing to license Chinese designs?
I note that the new high speed rail project being promoted in Texas is based on old shinkansen designs from Japan; I wonder if it was just too much lost face to consider a CRH derived design?
noooooooooooooo! you're solving the climate crisis but you stole our trademarked things to do it!!! you motherfuckers better put that carbon back in the air and do it the RIGHT way!
How has he forgotten great Randian hero Elmo who keeps trying to steal WeChat and somehow instead blasts pollution all over the American southwest and gets 9000 FAA violations
China "stealing" tech is good, but most of the time this complaint isn't even referring to IP infringement or anything clandestine. It's just the tecg transfer agreements that companies happily sign in order to move production to China.
People also forget that the Snowden leaks revealed the NSA was conducting industrial espionage against companies in Europe and China that compete against US companies.
I believe they purchased chips from NVIDIA and AMD no? I see quite a few news stories upon a first duckduckgo but I'm not really sure what to believe on this one.
I believe the suggestion is that they then reverse-engineered them and used what they learned in violation of IP law. I don't follow this, so I don't know if it's true, and I would support China doing this because fuck those companies and the US, but I believe that's the accusation.
Yea I mean I know China has reverse engineered a lot of Soviet and Russian weapons exports but I don't think chips and semiconductors is the same since the difficulty is in manufacturing and not what's in it
Companies generally have to transfer IP to even operate in China which is why the stealing IP generally doesn't even have to happen
The more I thought about it, the less it made sense; at least how it was built up in my head.
They were just purchasing the chips, and now the USA is trying to block those purchases AND encroach all around the SEA sea while positioning China as aggressors.
Do no Chinese firms have schematics for the chips to be made in Taiwan? Or will this just force China to design their own based on the current top-of-the-line?
I'm not against it, I'm merely posturing questions to learn.
China is still using deep ultraviolet (DUV) chip etching which has a resolution of 193 nanometres, whereas the latest technology is extreme ultraviolet (EUV) which has a resolution of 13.5 nanometres. In practice it means they're about four years behind the other chip manufacturers.
An EUV machine costs about $200 million and that's the one banned for export to China.
Shipping the machine requires 40 shipping containers, 20 trucks and three Boeing 747s.
Having the schematics isn't really enough - you also need the production lines and extreme tolerances to reliably build the machines.
Some chips are also export banned so Chinese firms have just been buying cloud time on the chips instead.
Longer term it is expected that China will develop a fully self sufficient semiconductor industry.
First you need the lithography machines (ASML). Then you need the process development (TSMC, Samsung, Intel). Then you need the EDA tools (Synopsys, Cadence).
SMEE announced a 28nm-capable lithography machine, SMIC has a gimped 7nm process, and Huawei has EDA tools capable down to 14nm.
However, necessity is the mother of invention. I'm expecting the next few years to see an explosion in specialized hardware coming out of Chinese companies.
Nothing wrong with stealing technology unless you want to carry water for corporations and their billionaire executives. Regardless of that most of the technological progress in China comes from technology transfer agreements that they made with Western corporations for doing the manufacturing for them which is then layered on top with indigenous innovations.
stolen technology lmao
"Only the white man possesses the creativity lobe, all other races can only produce lesser imitations of his works." - a thing liberals actually believe but they're totally not racist because they like Hamilton
dont make me tap the sign
"The Russians never invent anything. All they have, they’ve got from others. Everything comes to them from abroad—the engineers, the machine-tools. Give them the most highly perfected bombing-sights. They’re capable of copying them, but not of inventing them. With them, working-technique is simplified to the uttermost. Their rudimentary labour-force compels them to split up the work into a series of gestures that are easy to perform and, of course, require no effort of thought." - Adolf Hitler
Weird how liberal thought keeps echoing Hitler. Ah well, I'm sure it's just a coincidence
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The "stolen IP" story is fun because it represents an unstated assumption that only the West has good ideas.
When their years of long-term thinking and investment in R&D pay off, will the people kvetching today be willing to license Chinese designs?
I note that the new high speed rail project being promoted in Texas is based on old shinkansen designs from Japan; I wonder if it was just too much lost face to consider a CRH derived design?
It's also fun because if it was true, it would be proof that the copyright and patent system is stifling for development, competition and innovation
who cares about stolen tech, even if they did that would be better for carbon emissions
noooooooooooooo! you're solving the climate crisis but you stole our trademarked things to do it!!! you motherfuckers better put that carbon back in the air and do it the RIGHT way!
Love being a "life-long socialist" who values IP laws over human progress
How has he forgotten great Randian hero Elmo who keeps trying to steal WeChat and somehow instead blasts pollution all over the American southwest and gets 9000 FAA violations
China "stealing" tech is good, but most of the time this complaint isn't even referring to IP infringement or anything clandestine. It's just the tecg transfer agreements that companies happily sign in order to move production to China.
Referring to microchips maybe? Not technically incorrect but I'm confused why it's "wrong"
I have not seen a single credible source that China stole technology for microchips
If you're talking about that singular dude who stole from ASML then that's just a dude
A dude that rocks, might I add
People also forget that the Snowden leaks revealed the NSA was conducting industrial espionage against companies in Europe and China that compete against US companies.
China accused them of the same thing recently: https://hexbear.net/comment/3707564
I believe they purchased chips from NVIDIA and AMD no? I see quite a few news stories upon a first duckduckgo but I'm not really sure what to believe on this one.
Anybody can buy chips from NVIDIA and AMD, I'm not sure I follow
I believe the suggestion is that they then reverse-engineered them and used what they learned in violation of IP law. I don't follow this, so I don't know if it's true, and I would support China doing this because fuck those companies and the US, but I believe that's the accusation.
Yea I mean I know China has reverse engineered a lot of Soviet and Russian weapons exports but I don't think chips and semiconductors is the same since the difficulty is in manufacturing and not what's in it
Companies generally have to transfer IP to even operate in China which is why the stealing IP generally doesn't even have to happen
Thanks, this finally makes me gets what they're actually saying with that stupid "China is stealing IP" mouth fart.
The more I thought about it, the less it made sense; at least how it was built up in my head.
They were just purchasing the chips, and now the USA is trying to block those purchases AND encroach all around the SEA sea while positioning China as aggressors.
Do no Chinese firms have schematics for the chips to be made in Taiwan? Or will this just force China to design their own based on the current top-of-the-line?
I'm not against it, I'm merely posturing questions to learn.
China is still using deep ultraviolet (DUV) chip etching which has a resolution of 193 nanometres, whereas the latest technology is extreme ultraviolet (EUV) which has a resolution of 13.5 nanometres. In practice it means they're about four years behind the other chip manufacturers.
An EUV machine costs about $200 million and that's the one banned for export to China.
Having the schematics isn't really enough - you also need the production lines and extreme tolerances to reliably build the machines.
Some chips are also export banned so Chinese firms have just been buying cloud time on the chips instead.
Longer term it is expected that China will develop a fully self sufficient semiconductor industry.
Semiconductors are hard.
First you need the lithography machines (ASML). Then you need the process development (TSMC, Samsung, Intel). Then you need the EDA tools (Synopsys, Cadence).
SMEE announced a 28nm-capable lithography machine, SMIC has a gimped 7nm process, and Huawei has EDA tools capable down to 14nm.
However, necessity is the mother of invention. I'm expecting the next few years to see an explosion in specialized hardware coming out of Chinese companies.
Nothing wrong with stealing technology unless you want to carry water for corporations and their billionaire executives. Regardless of that most of the technological progress in China comes from technology transfer agreements that they made with Western corporations for doing the manufacturing for them which is then layered on top with indigenous innovations.
deleted by creator