This is like if the Confederacy retreated to Catalina Island, massacred everyone there, and continued calling itself the rightful government of the entire continent afterward.
This is not like that. The ROC government did not "massacre everyone there." It did call itself the rightful government of the entire China for several decades, but it has since then moved on.
Man, these days you know a hexbear without even looking at the user.
I mean this is complete baloney! You are also using the comparison to establish some kind of “evil slavers vs democracy” narrative that wasn’t in place at all in China during the warlord era. They were all equally horrid.
This is, at best, akin to a war between all states in the US after the Boston Tea Party and a communist state, let’s just pick Arizona, slowly winning the wars and forcing the remaining faction onto Hawaii. Then the socialist party forced anyone who could read, more or less, to work themselves to death in a field in the name of communism. Glory to the people!!!
I agree my characterisation is far off the mark. But the poster I responded to wasn’t even in the same galaxy, so I still considered it an improvement.
They did not say that they don't know shit about the topic, not even close. They simply said their characterization is far off the marks. That means that their understanding of the conflict is far from perfect, but they absolutely do know shit about it.
To think that you saw me make fun of you for the game of telephone you played with yourself and decided to take the final translation and defend yourself with it. Way to miss the fucking point. "Far from the mark" was already cope by someone who was simply fucking wrong about what they said.
This is, at best, akin to a war between all states in the US after the Boston Tea Party and a communist state, let’s just pick Arizona, slowly winning the wars and forcing the remaining faction onto Hawaii. Then the socialist party forced anyone who could read, more or less, to work themselves to death in a field in the name of communism. Glory to the people!!!
Uhhhh, The US already killed most of the natives by working them to death in a field in the name of profits. So... God Bless America?
Fuck you, honestly, you don't know what you're talking about. The Native Hawaiians I've met are extremely radical. It took me not time at all of just asking around to find an honest to god, Stalin loving, Marxist Leninist.
China reduced illiteracy rates into oblivion because of the communist party. The CPC was the largest force fighting the Japanese imperialists. They liberated Korea after the US empire colonized half of it. The Communist Party of China has given China a rebirth not seen since the glory of the dynasties. It ended famine in china, gave housing to most if not all chinese, eliminated the harshes poverty, and so much more.
Work to death in a field eh? Sounds more like the US, you know, when they killed and enslaved billions of people to work to death for their cotton farms?
Go eat something right away, even if it's just a snack! I once got a nasty concussion after skipping lunch at work and passing out. Trust me, the hospital bill isn't worth it.
Although I can't for the next hour since its 1 and I get off at... 2ish, I'm used to being light headed so I can make it until then. I don't have much money to buy the expensive ass lunches here, but today is worse than usual, so I'll make an exception.
But wait you're not supposed to skip lunch? I thought you only really had to eat dinner, at least thats what I've been doing.
Depends on the individual, apparently. According to to the doctors I've spoken to, there's no bigger issue. I basically can't go more than 3 hours without eating something or I start to feel faint, which is definitely on the low end though.
I think I've done it so much I can kind of disassociate from the pain long enough to last until dinner. If that doesn't work, chewing gum tricks your brain into thinking you've eaten, so I use that. Imma do that until I can see if I can snag some dinosaur chicken nuggets or smth.
So are we gonna talk about how USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world? Are we going to talk about income equality in USA vs China? Are we going to talk about the Concentration camps for refugee children on the USA border? (If you are going to bring up Xinjiang I'm going to need some photographic evidence beyond vibes and zenz doing bad statistical analysis)
What does incarceration rate have to do with how good the country is? Do you really believe that the income is more equal in China? If you are going to talk about the "concentration camps" on the USA border I'm going to need photo evidence too. Here is a photo of the camp in Xinjiang:
What does incarceration rate have to do with how good the country is?
not "how good it is" "How it treats its people" America locks up its people way more (531/100k) than other China (119/100k). Is imprisoning people treating them well?
Kids in cages. There's some photo's there and I think you'll probably respect WaPo as a source.
removed externally hosted image
You can try again but I'm gonna guess that it is just a picture of a building or some prisoners with no context on how many people are there or why they are there.
I apologize for saying "how good it is." I was in a rush and couldn't think of a better phrase.
I just read through the article from the Washington Post you linked. That really is bad and I believe that the Trump government should not have treated the (although illegal) immigrants. The grim appearance of that facility really isn't something that the immigrants should have faced when they set foot on the US. However, compare that to the situation in Xinjiang. Here is an opinion post from the Washington Post. What China is doing to its Uyghurs is genocide. Not that it justifies anything that the US have done to its immigrants, but in comparison what the US is doing seem pretty mild.
that's not news that is an opinion piece that references Zenz who is a liar and Nazi sympathiser.
The UN has done a fact finding Mission and they said there is no evidence of a Uyghur Genocide. It didn't happen.
Yes there are Vocational schools in Xinjiang but that is to teach people trades to lift themselves out of poverty. The only "culture" being erased is religious extremist terrorism that snuck in through Afghanistan when USA pushed the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Yes there was a rapid increase in birth control measures in Xinjiang but that is what happens when women are given education, economic self determination, and access to proper medical care. They get a IUD so they can focus on living their lives the way they want to instead of being slaves to men who use them as domestic servants and baby incubators.
Zenz based his entire "genocide" theory off statistics and bad math because he is involved in the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. It is an organization built to spread hate against communism. They hate Communism because the USSR killed 7/10 nazis that died in WW2. The large majority of "Victims of Communism" were Nazis and the people memorializing them are nazis too.
I just clicked that link and, wow, that tweet was quite stupid. He should not have said that. What the Nazis did was unexcusable. However, please keep this in mind - that being a Nazi sympathizer does not automatically invalidate one's opinions on other topics.
The UN has done a fact finding Mission and they said there is no evidence of a Uyghur Genocide. It didn't happen.
China is one of the five most powerful members of the UN (the permanent members of the security council). Though the security council does not have much to do with the investigation directly, there is no gainsaying that China has had a certain degree of influence. It is entirely possible that the UN decided to overlook their crimes due to pressure from China.
Yes there are Vocational schools in Xinjiang. [...] and baby incubators.
When I told you that the Xinjiang camps are committing genocide or when you saw Zenz claiming the same how did you feel? You were thinking that I gobbled up and regurgitated all the US propaganda and that this is just a conspiracy theory because I couldn't give concrete proof, weren't you? This is also exactly how I feel toward your claims except that the propaganda you gobbled up were Chinese. Besides, I am pretty sure that when women are given more education, they decide not to have so many children either by using condoms or having less sex rather than getting IUDs.
being a Nazi sympathizer does not automatically invalidate one's opinions on other topics
I'll fight you on that especially when the "other topics" are "opposing Communist states."
It is entirely possible that the UN decided to overlook their crimes due to pressure from China.
UN is a China Puppet? GTFO. The Peoples Republic of China wanted to join the UN in the 1950s but wasn't granted membership until 1971 despite being the government representing over a fifth (22%) of the population of the planet.
You were thinking that I gobbled up and regurgitated all the US propaganda and that this is just a conspiracy theory
China is not committing genocide in Xinjiang camps the only one saying they are is a nazi sympathiser. If you are saying it it is only because you have not recognized that it is propaganda spread to delegitimize a communist government and rehabilitate fascism.
Besides, I am pretty sure that when women are given more education, they decide not to have so many children either by using condoms or having less sex rather than getting IUDs.
This is peak "I have never discussed contraception with a woman." If you are going to choose between having less sex and fucking any time the mood takes you what will you choose? If you can choose between having to insist your partner wear a condom or just not having to worry about it what would you choose? No offense if you are asexual or whatever but this is like pure male virgin ignorance.
No offence but your lack of media literacy is showing..
You understand that using WaPo as a source for American wrong doings is not the same as using WaPo as a source for wrong doings it's geopolitical rival. You'd need a Chinese outlet admitting to their faults for it to be equivalent..
Nonetheless I clicked on your link:
The disclosure comes in an investigative report from the Associated Press and a new research report by scholar Adrian Zenz for the Jamestown Foundation.
I hope I don't sound rude but it really sounds like you only consider WaPo trustworthy when it's convenient for you. Besides, the media in China are heavily controlled by the government. I don't think a news outlet would survive if they dared to report such things.
Literally the second paragraph...
Sorry, I don't understand how that makes this any less trustworthy?
I hope I don’t sound rude but it really sounds like you only consider WaPo trustworthy when it’s convenient for you.
That's not quite what they're saying. They're saying WaPo is also subject to censorship and coercion, so their word holds more weight when it's a topic where they might be penalised for publishing. If you don't think there are any Chinese sources that can publish things critical of China, then you can still follow carl_marks_1312's methodology in part by finding articles from sources with a free press but geopolitically aligned with China.
Sorry, I don’t understand how that makes this any less trustworthy?
To us, Adrian Zenz automatically means you can dismiss the evidence. The person you're talking to went in with that assumption, and then was lambasting you for not noticing such an obvious and glaring problem with the article. So that's where the disconnect comes from. Of course without that assumption the comment doesn't make sense.
Zenz is a garbage person, but more importantly he's not reliable. He's verifiably been caught lying several times. The tweet you commented on is out of context. I don't know what the context is, it probably doesn't change what's being said, but without reading the context I can't know if it's a justifiable thing to say. Perhaps it was. Perhaps he was explaining Nazi mentality without trying to justify it. It doesn't matter. Zenz is a bad source because he's a liar primarily. He uses bad science and statistics, he makes wild inferences, he pretends not to notice mistakes that he must've noticed, etc. He only ever cites circular sources. That is to say media reports of his own publishings.
Here's a photo of a camp in the USA. *removed externally hosted image*
I actually don't know if this image is fake or not, could be from a film for all I know. It's a DDG search result. But then you didn't actually research the origin of your photo either.
Edit: This comment does not address the ICE concentration camps and is only replying to the quoted text. To be clear.
My photo was taken from the Wikipedia article for the Xinjiang internment camps. Taken in April 2017, the image is titled Detainee in a Xinjiang Re-education Camp located in Lop County listening to "de-radicalization" talks. The photo you linked to was taken in the Arizona State Prison Complex: https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2020/05/20/early-release-arizona-prisons-matter-public-health-not-politics/5218072002/.
I actually already knew where you found that photo. But it's simply mislabelled on Wikipedia. This is where the image is from. https://web.archive.org/web/20180820154817/https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1564669932542581&wfr=spider&for=pc
This is the earliest upload of that image known to me. It's from a regular prison in Xinjiang where convicted criminals who went through a legal trial are incarcerated. It's not related to the de-radicalisation program that the western media calls cultural genocide and suspect is happening in concentration camps.
Sorry, your link https://web.archive.org/web/20180820154817/https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1564669932542581&wfr=spider&for=pc is broken. Web.archive.org tells me that it "got an HTTP 301 response at crawl time." Can you take a screenshot of it?
Wow, so it appears that those blue-shirted people are just inmates of a regular prison. Oh well, I guess I don't actually have any photo of those camps.
I'm very invested in this and have spent a lot of time looking for photographic evidence. I can't find any. And it's a horrible search to be honest, there's a lot of harrowing photos online. But at this point I'm completely confident in believing the concentration camp story is a hoax.
Yes but the USA has a PPP GDP PC of 76400 G–K$ and China has 21500 G–K$. How can you in good faith compare those?
(Life expectancy for Mexico, marginally richer per capita than China is 70. Life expectancy for the Philippines (poorer pc than China) is 69.)
The fact that China is in the same ballpark should be evidence enough that their policies are more people-orientated. The fact that they're ahead despite the huge disadvantage should be a huge point of shame for the USA, not something to be dismissed with saying the gap is small.
The PRC is the confederate equivalent, as they weren't the original legal government unlike Taiwan, which legally is the heir of the ROC.
The left wing of the KMT split from Chiang's KMT in 1948 to form the Revolutionary Committee of the KMT. It was headed by a senior KMT General and Song Ching Ling the widow of Sun Yat Sen. Madam Song would later serve as a Vice President of the People's Republic of China and the Revolutionary Committee of the KMT holds seats in the National People's Congress to this day.
If you even look at the history of the KMT, you'd see that it's incredibly prone to factionalism, including a period during the First United Front where the CPC agreed to join the KMT as a wing to fight the Warlords but left after the KMT stabbed it in the back during the Shanghai Purges.
Legally, the PRC is recognized by the UN as the sole representative of China under General Assembly Resolution 2758 and the overwhelming majority of the world's nation's recognize that there is only one China and that China is the PRC.
The PRC is the confederate equivalent, as they weren’t the original legal government unlike Taiwan, which legally is the heir of the ROC.
Going by paper legality argument, ROC is also illegal because it wrested power from Qing. Which conquered China from Ming, which toppled Yuan, and going fast forward to Han, Qing, Zhao and Shang, neither of them also risen peacefully.
Does it looks like that to you? I would say they have unparallelled cultural and civilisational continuity rarily seen in any other place. And feudal empires falling is not the gotcha you think it is, especially when you look at the absolute clusterfuck in Europe (or many other places too).
Every great empire in human civilization has fallen. China is the only one to have fallen and then gotten back up multiple times.
Like yeah China will probably fall again in the future, but the great grandchildren of everyone on this site will be long dead by then. Contrast that with America, which has had hegemony only since 1945 and already looks like it's in terminal decline.
You made your point dating to the shang, and I dont disagree. Even more, you're right, feudal empires falling isn't a gotcha.
So what about a modern state being violently overthrown? Or is this different because one violent, illegiment warlord championed "the people", and proceeded to starve 200* million of them after taking power?
Which one of these two states still maintains democratic or republican ideals for the people, a reminder that real Legitimacy lay with the people.
Sorry. Just a measley 50 million people mb. Still the worst famine in history. And 100% preventable.
Modern state is when you fund yourself off of opium profits, you appoint your gangster relatives to be in charge of state finances, your officials occasionally run off to form collaborationist governments with Imperial Japan, and you're so corrupt and incompetent that your own allies are disgusted by you and you lose a war against your own people despite the military and financial backing of the most powerful country in the world.
Democratic and republican ideals is when you retreat to an island because you got your ass handed to you and then perpetrate the White Terror against your people for 40 years.
You made your point dating to the shang, and I dont disagree.
Well, as i read about the history of China, previous entity of Xia apparently didn't conquered anyone and even if they did, we don't know, written history of China start from the late Shang period.
About the rest Tankiedesantski answered you about the "republican ideas" of ROC, i can only add that even if you deflect yet again to "real Legitimacy lay with the people" there is nothing more really legitimate by the people than popular revolution which led to the state being supported by 90% of population.
Nobody in SEA likes Taiwan. It doesn't help that Taiwan has two naval bases in the South China Sea and always sides with the PRC against the rest of SEA over the SCS, mostly using the justification of "acktually the SCS is part of Chinese naval waters and we're officially called the Republic of China, so this is Taiwanese naval waters btw since we're officially called the Republic of China."
Is that a bad thing? In your hypothetical situation, Chinese people should be happy about their government selling weaponry to Texas, and the Americans should not support their sale of weaponry. To compare this to the real world scenario, Chinese people should feel angry about this and Americans should feel good. I don't really get the point you're trying to convey with your analogy.
Imagine instead of complete surrender the confederacy retreated and held Texas, and China was selling them advanced weaponry. That’s what this is
This is like if the Confederacy retreated to Catalina Island, massacred everyone there, and continued calling itself the rightful government of the entire continent afterward.
This is not like that. The ROC government did not "massacre everyone there." It did call itself the rightful government of the entire China for several decades, but it has since then moved on.
It's constitution has not even been amended to not include Mongolia, let alone mainland China.
And the KMT did do a number on the indigenous Formosan population.
To say nothing of the 40 years White Terror
Man, these days you know a hexbear without even looking at the user.
I mean this is complete baloney! You are also using the comparison to establish some kind of “evil slavers vs democracy” narrative that wasn’t in place at all in China during the warlord era. They were all equally horrid.
This is, at best, akin to a war between all states in the US after the Boston Tea Party and a communist state, let’s just pick Arizona, slowly winning the wars and forcing the remaining faction onto Hawaii. Then the socialist party forced anyone who could read, more or less, to work themselves to death in a field in the name of communism. Glory to the people!!!
jesus christ read at least one book about the history of the conflict you're describing before you confidently spout nonsense.
I agree my characterisation is far off the mark. But the poster I responded to wasn’t even in the same galaxy, so I still considered it an improvement.
Also, I’m not Jesus Christ 🤪
Do they make redditors in a factory or something
No, they make Patrick.
Youve gotta be shitting me
So you acknowledge the fact that you don't know shit about the topic you're spouting off on but you still just assume you know better??
They did not say that they don't know shit about the topic, not even close. They simply said their characterization is far off the marks. That means that their understanding of the conflict is far from perfect, but they absolutely do know shit about it.
They didn't say they were wrong
They just said they were far off the mark
That means their understanding is far from perfect
They absolutely do know their shit
far from perfect can still be good.
Can it be time for you to shut up yet?
To think that you saw me make fun of you for the game of telephone you played with yourself and decided to take the final translation and defend yourself with it. Way to miss the fucking point. "Far from the mark" was already cope by someone who was simply fucking wrong about what they said.
I am not going to shut up. I am not going to shut up at anyone's request. I also believe that their comment had a certain degree of truth to it.
Baby brain. "What they said may have been completely false but I still feel like it's true"
Shutting the fuck up at this point isn't a request; it's advice.
Ok then, advice rejected.
Shocking
Fine, I might actually take your advice. (don't gloat)
update to my previous comment: I decided to not take your advice anyway
You really need to get a new joke, boomer
Uhhhh, The US already killed most of the natives by working them to death in a field in the name of profits. So... God Bless America?
Fuck you, honestly, you don't know what you're talking about. The Native Hawaiians I've met are extremely radical. It took me not time at all of just asking around to find an honest to god, Stalin loving, Marxist Leninist.
China reduced illiteracy rates into oblivion because of the communist party. The CPC was the largest force fighting the Japanese imperialists. They liberated Korea after the US empire colonized half of it. The Communist Party of China has given China a rebirth not seen since the glory of the dynasties. It ended famine in china, gave housing to most if not all chinese, eliminated the harshes poverty, and so much more.
Work to death in a field eh? Sounds more like the US, you know, when they killed and enslaved billions of people to work to death for their cotton farms?
Liberals will tell you this is evil because it allowed the peasants to read Marx.
I think you mean "illiteracy rates" there, comrade.
fuck, sorry I haven't eaten today thanks lol
Go eat something right away, even if it's just a snack! I once got a nasty concussion after skipping lunch at work and passing out. Trust me, the hospital bill isn't worth it.
Although I can't for the next hour since its 1 and I get off at... 2ish, I'm used to being light headed so I can make it until then. I don't have much money to buy the expensive ass lunches here, but today is worse than usual, so I'll make an exception.
But wait you're not supposed to skip lunch? I thought you only really had to eat dinner, at least thats what I've been doing.
Depends on the individual, apparently. According to to the doctors I've spoken to, there's no bigger issue. I basically can't go more than 3 hours without eating something or I start to feel faint, which is definitely on the low end though.
I think I've done it so much I can kind of disassociate from the pain long enough to last until dinner. If that doesn't work, chewing gum tricks your brain into thinking you've eaten, so I use that. Imma do that until I can see if I can snag some dinosaur chicken nuggets or smth.
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I agree. People should take how the Chinese government and the US government treat their people into consideration.
lmaoooo
How constructive.
So are we gonna talk about how USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world? Are we going to talk about income equality in USA vs China? Are we going to talk about the Concentration camps for refugee children on the USA border? (If you are going to bring up Xinjiang I'm going to need some photographic evidence beyond vibes and zenz doing bad statistical analysis)
What does incarceration rate have to do with how good the country is? Do you really believe that the income is more equal in China? If you are going to talk about the "concentration camps" on the USA border I'm going to need photo evidence too. Here is a photo of the camp in Xinjiang:
::: spoiler *removed externally hosted image* :::
No, this photo is not fake.
not "how good it is" "How it treats its people" America locks up its people way more (531/100k) than other China (119/100k). Is imprisoning people treating them well?
Kids in cages. There's some photo's there and I think you'll probably respect WaPo as a source.
You can try again but I'm gonna guess that it is just a picture of a building or some prisoners with no context on how many people are there or why they are there.
I apologize for saying "how good it is." I was in a rush and couldn't think of a better phrase.
I just read through the article from the Washington Post you linked. That really is bad and I believe that the Trump government should not have treated the (although illegal) immigrants. The grim appearance of that facility really isn't something that the immigrants should have faced when they set foot on the US. However, compare that to the situation in Xinjiang. Here is an opinion post from the Washington Post. What China is doing to its Uyghurs is genocide. Not that it justifies anything that the US have done to its immigrants, but in comparison what the US is doing seem pretty mild.
that's not news that is an opinion piece that references Zenz who is a liar and Nazi sympathiser.
The UN has done a fact finding Mission and they said there is no evidence of a Uyghur Genocide. It didn't happen.
Yes there are Vocational schools in Xinjiang but that is to teach people trades to lift themselves out of poverty. The only "culture" being erased is religious extremist terrorism that snuck in through Afghanistan when USA pushed the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Yes there was a rapid increase in birth control measures in Xinjiang but that is what happens when women are given education, economic self determination, and access to proper medical care. They get a IUD so they can focus on living their lives the way they want to instead of being slaves to men who use them as domestic servants and baby incubators.
Zenz based his entire "genocide" theory off statistics and bad math because he is involved in the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. It is an organization built to spread hate against communism. They hate Communism because the USSR killed 7/10 nazis that died in WW2. The large majority of "Victims of Communism" were Nazis and the people memorializing them are nazis too.
I literally stated that in my comment. You even quoted it.
I just clicked that link and, wow, that tweet was quite stupid. He should not have said that. What the Nazis did was unexcusable. However, please keep this in mind - that being a Nazi sympathizer does not automatically invalidate one's opinions on other topics.
China is one of the five most powerful members of the UN (the permanent members of the security council). Though the security council does not have much to do with the investigation directly, there is no gainsaying that China has had a certain degree of influence. It is entirely possible that the UN decided to overlook their crimes due to pressure from China.
When I told you that the Xinjiang camps are committing genocide or when you saw Zenz claiming the same how did you feel? You were thinking that I gobbled up and regurgitated all the US propaganda and that this is just a conspiracy theory because I couldn't give concrete proof, weren't you? This is also exactly how I feel toward your claims except that the propaganda you gobbled up were Chinese. Besides, I am pretty sure that when women are given more education, they decide not to have so many children either by using condoms or having less sex rather than getting IUDs.
I'll fight you on that especially when the "other topics" are "opposing Communist states."
UN is a China Puppet? GTFO. The Peoples Republic of China wanted to join the UN in the 1950s but wasn't granted membership until 1971 despite being the government representing over a fifth (22%) of the population of the planet.
China is not committing genocide in Xinjiang camps the only one saying they are is a nazi sympathiser. If you are saying it it is only because you have not recognized that it is propaganda spread to delegitimize a communist government and rehabilitate fascism.
This is peak "I have never discussed contraception with a woman." If you are going to choose between having less sex and fucking any time the mood takes you what will you choose? If you can choose between having to insist your partner wear a condom or just not having to worry about it what would you choose? No offense if you are asexual or whatever but this is like pure male virgin ignorance.
No offence but your lack of media literacy is showing..
You understand that using WaPo as a source for American wrong doings is not the same as using WaPo as a source for wrong doings it's geopolitical rival. You'd need a Chinese outlet admitting to their faults for it to be equivalent..
Nonetheless I clicked on your link:
Literally the second paragraph...
I hope I don't sound rude but it really sounds like you only consider WaPo trustworthy when it's convenient for you. Besides, the media in China are heavily controlled by the government. I don't think a news outlet would survive if they dared to report such things.
Sorry, I don't understand how that makes this any less trustworthy?
That's not quite what they're saying. They're saying WaPo is also subject to censorship and coercion, so their word holds more weight when it's a topic where they might be penalised for publishing. If you don't think there are any Chinese sources that can publish things critical of China, then you can still follow carl_marks_1312's methodology in part by finding articles from sources with a free press but geopolitically aligned with China.
To us, Adrian Zenz automatically means you can dismiss the evidence. The person you're talking to went in with that assumption, and then was lambasting you for not noticing such an obvious and glaring problem with the article. So that's where the disconnect comes from. Of course without that assumption the comment doesn't make sense.
Zenz is a garbage person, but more importantly he's not reliable. He's verifiably been caught lying several times. The tweet you commented on is out of context. I don't know what the context is, it probably doesn't change what's being said, but without reading the context I can't know if it's a justifiable thing to say. Perhaps it was. Perhaps he was explaining Nazi mentality without trying to justify it. It doesn't matter. Zenz is a bad source because he's a liar primarily. He uses bad science and statistics, he makes wild inferences, he pretends not to notice mistakes that he must've noticed, etc. He only ever cites circular sources. That is to say media reports of his own publishings.
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Here's a photo of a camp in the USA. *removed externally hosted image*
I actually don't know if this image is fake or not, could be from a film for all I know. It's a DDG search result. But then you didn't actually research the origin of your photo either.
Edit: This comment does not address the ICE concentration camps and is only replying to the quoted text. To be clear.
My photo was taken from the Wikipedia article for the Xinjiang internment camps. Taken in April 2017, the image is titled Detainee in a Xinjiang Re-education Camp located in Lop County listening to "de-radicalization" talks. The photo you linked to was taken in the Arizona State Prison Complex: https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2020/05/20/early-release-arizona-prisons-matter-public-health-not-politics/5218072002/.
I actually already knew where you found that photo. But it's simply mislabelled on Wikipedia. This is where the image is from. https://web.archive.org/web/20180820154817/https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1564669932542581&wfr=spider&for=pc
This is the earliest upload of that image known to me. It's from a regular prison in Xinjiang where convicted criminals who went through a legal trial are incarcerated. It's not related to the de-radicalisation program that the western media calls cultural genocide and suspect is happening in concentration camps.
Edit: New link.
Sorry, your link
https://web.archive.org/web/20180820154817/https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1564669932542581&wfr=spider&for=pcis broken. Web.archive.org tells me that it "got an HTTP 301 response at crawl time." Can you take a screenshot of it?Yes, no problem.
Here's the quoted text.
用情感敲开心灵大门 用说理舒缓群众情绪
石亭资讯 百家号17-04-1423:59
“春雨贵如油，下得满街溜”。一夜春雨，麦苗在返青，杨柳在吐绿，杏花在怒放，和田大地处处呈现一派万物复苏、生机盎然的生命色彩。4月7日，洛浦县恰尔巴格乡运动场人山人海，红旗招展。放眼望去，两万余名群众纹丝不动，虽然天公不作美，下起了毛毛细雨，地上渐渐有了泥泞，但仍然挡不住听讲的热情。有的群众把塑料袋罩在头上挡雨，许多群众席地而坐，大家都有一个共同的心声，慕名前来聆听自治区司法厅“去极端化”宣讲团的精彩宣讲。
据悉，4月7日上午，自治区司法厅“去极端化”宣讲团来到洛浦县恰尔巴格乡，展开了为期3天的“去极端化”大宣讲。这次宣讲集中在恰尔巴格乡、杭桂镇、山普鲁镇三个分会场以及洛浦县教育转化中心和影剧院两个专场。布亚乡、纳瓦乡、洛浦镇就近集中在分会场，全县共设5个会场，覆盖到所有乡镇和重点村，近6万余名宗教人士、非教职人员、重点特殊人群、16岁－45岁易感人群、乡（镇）村干部、村支部书记、寺管会主任、驻村工作组少数民族干部、个体工商户、朝觐和拟朝觐人员、女洗尸人员，部分教师和村民代表参加宣讲活动。
宣讲中，自治区政协常委、自治区促进和谐预防犯罪宣讲办公室主任阿布都瓦依提·赛迪瓦卡斯紧紧围绕社会稳定和长治久安总目标，结合党的民族宗教政策和法律法规、民族传统文化习俗等内容，深入揭批宗教极端思想的现实危害和“三股势力”的滔天罪行，讲述近年来发生在身边的典型案件事件，并穿插讲解法律知识，讲述社会主义核心价值观和做人做事的道理、让广大群众在聆听中思考、理解，懂得遵纪守法的重要性，以此引导广大干部群众要学法、知法、懂法、守法，争取做一名爱国爱疆、遵纪守法的好公民。
阿布都瓦依提主任在宣讲中对现场听众一一列举了这些年来特别是改革开放30多年以来新疆翻天覆地的变化，党中央对新疆少数民族地区群众的关心和厚爱，党的富民政策给南疆农村带来的实惠和巨变，内地19个援疆省（市）给予新疆无私的援助，“一带一路”给新疆特别是南疆即将创造的发展机遇，等等。讲清楚了以习近平同志为核心的党中央对新疆各族干部群众的亲切关怀；讲清楚了党的各项惠民政策；讲清楚了党的民族宗教政策和法律法规；讲清楚了援疆省（市）对新疆社会稳定和长治久安做出的无私奉献；讲清楚了伊斯兰教的传统教义教规和正信正行；讲清楚了宗教极端思想和暴力恐怖活动的严重危害；讲清楚了新疆各族人民共同团结奋斗，共同繁荣发展的重要意义；讲清楚了新疆在新中国成立以来特别是改革开放以来发生的巨大变化。
在与宗教人士交流互动中，阿布都瓦依提主任积极引导宗教人士牢记总书记嘱托，紧紧围绕社会稳定和长治久安总目标，在爱国爱民、提高造诣、遵规守法、抵制极端四个方面带头发挥积极作用。宣讲期间，阿布都瓦依提畅谈了对党的宗教方针政策、自治区党委关心爱国宗教人士等工作的切身感受，让宗教人士用心体会自治区党委在财政极为困难的情况下，投入大量资金推进清真寺“七进两有”建设，加强爱国宗教人士培养培训，发放误工补贴，完善医疗、养老等社会保障措施的良苦用心，教育宗教人士爱祖国、感党恩、听党话、跟党走，争做“五好宗教人士”。
随后，2名服刑人员上台现身说法，讲述了自己的悔过心路历程，呼吁在场听众擦亮眼睛、明辨是非，远离非法宗教、远离宗教极端。台上忏悔声声，台下泪流满面，许多听众不停地擦拭眼泪，有的感慨万千，一时语塞。服刑人员艾某的爸爸、妈妈和哥哥坐在宣讲现场第一排认真聆听着宣讲，他们一把鼻涕一把泪听完了艾某现身说法，艾某的妈妈掩饰不住自己的激动，泪水不停地在眼眶里打转，她带着自己从家里制作的一面锦旗送给了宣讲团的民警。锦旗上写着：“献给自治区司法厅和监狱管理局：感谢监狱各级领导和干部同志给我们孩子各方面的关爱和教育；感谢阿布都瓦依提老师为提高我们孩子的政治、法律意识，为我们孩子成为一个合格的公民而做的一次又一次的工作。我的孩子今天悔悟醒过，阿布都瓦依提老师功劳很大。服刑人员艾某家属：和田县罕艾日克镇羌村依明·吐合提。”
司法厅“去极端化”宣讲团副团长、第一监狱监狱长伊布拉音·艾买提说：“刚才，服刑人员艾再子·依明家属通过赠送锦旗的方式表达了对党和政府的感恩之情，虽然这只是一面普通的锦旗，但代表的是广大人民群众的心声，汇聚了对党和政府的感恩之意。艾再子·依明犯下了不可饶恕的罪行，但祖国母亲没有抛弃他，在阿布都瓦依提主任的精心指导和广大监狱民警不厌其烦的教诲下，忏悔自己的罪行，回归正义，获得了像今天这样面向社会现身说教的机会。在押罪犯中还有很多像艾再子·依明这样的罪犯。把在押罪犯改造成为守法的公民是我们一贯的宗旨，在今后监狱改造实践当中，我们将一如既往地聚焦总目标、盯着总目标、落实总目标，牢记使命、不负重托，不忘初心、砥砺前行，用心用情教育转化更多的服刑人员，为使罪犯改造成为对国家、对社会、对家庭有用的守法公民而努力。”
洛浦县恰尔巴格乡加依托格拉克村党支部书记阿布力米提·买提托乎提说：“自治区司法厅‘去极端化’宣讲团不远千里、不辞辛劳来到我们家乡宣讲，给我们带来了党和政府的声音，像春风一样温暖了基层群众的心。阿布都瓦依提主任冒着雨坐在台上宣讲，他的宗教学识造诣高，政策法律知识丰富，讲的故事群众爱听。特别是他把群众当作自己的亲人，宣讲充满感情。他的说理有根有据，打动了我们的心。如果我们在前十年听到这样好的宣讲，今天我们的村民就不会被宗教极端毒害得这么深，希望司法厅宣讲团在我们家乡多讲一讲，把我们的村民从宗教极端危害中解脱出来。”
杭桂镇吾斯塘村开买尔汗·艾合买江动情地说：“听了阿布都瓦依提的宣讲我豁然开朗，我明白了我的丈夫被收押的原因，是宗教极端害了我全家。阿主任就是‘及时雨’，他把真理送到了我们的心坎上，解救了很多家庭，挽救了一些痴迷不悟的维吾尔族人。想一想，共产党的政策确实好，不仅没有处理这些受宗教极端思想污染的人，还把他们集中起来管吃、管住进行学习培训和教育转化，世界上哪一个国家也做不到这一点。我现在要做的就是配合政府，积极帮助受害的亲属做好亲人教育转化工作，让他们悔悟自省，迷途知返，早日回到家里勤劳致富奔小康”。（张世福/文 牙生/图）
Here's the html file https://wormhole.app/axLbP#d8Ae7EO14jLvN5h-TF1l5A
Here's a screenshot
I also fixed the link.
Wow, so it appears that those blue-shirted people are just inmates of a regular prison. Oh well, I guess I don't actually have any photo of those camps.
I'm very invested in this and have spent a lot of time looking for photographic evidence. I can't find any. And it's a horrible search to be honest, there's a lot of harrowing photos online. But at this point I'm completely confident in believing the concentration camp story is a hoax.
Yeah I'm not that willing to hunt for those pictures online either due to the harrowing nature of those photos
What is that plot about?
Life expectancy— how the US government treats its people
The life expectancy of China in 2021 was 77.13 - not that much higher than the US.
🐕🧠🫵
Thank you.
Yes but the USA has a PPP GDP PC of 76400 G–K$ and China has 21500 G–K$. How can you in good faith compare those?
(Life expectancy for Mexico, marginally richer per capita than China is 70. Life expectancy for the Philippines (poorer pc than China) is 69.)
The fact that China is in the same ballpark should be evidence enough that their policies are more people-orientated. The fact that they're ahead despite the huge disadvantage should be a huge point of shame for the USA, not something to be dismissed with saying the gap is small.
Covid
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Well, not quite. It's more akin to if the union was pushed back and was limited to new-england.
The PRC is the confederate equivalent, as they weren't the original legal government unlike Taiwan, which legally is the heir of the ROC.
Also one of these states is an authoritarian piece of shit, and it's definitely not Taiwan.
The left wing of the KMT split from Chiang's KMT in 1948 to form the Revolutionary Committee of the KMT. It was headed by a senior KMT General and Song Ching Ling the widow of Sun Yat Sen. Madam Song would later serve as a Vice President of the People's Republic of China and the Revolutionary Committee of the KMT holds seats in the National People's Congress to this day.
If you even look at the history of the KMT, you'd see that it's incredibly prone to factionalism, including a period during the First United Front where the CPC agreed to join the KMT as a wing to fight the Warlords but left after the KMT stabbed it in the back during the Shanghai Purges.
Legally, the PRC is recognized by the UN as the sole representative of China under General Assembly Resolution 2758 and the overwhelming majority of the world's nation's recognize that there is only one China and that China is the PRC.
Cope and seethe.
Going by paper legality argument, ROC is also illegal because it wrested power from Qing. Which conquered China from Ming, which toppled Yuan, and going fast forward to Han, Qing, Zhao and Shang, neither of them also risen peacefully.
Ahhh, Chinese history. Breaking every 400-500 years into total chaos, and someone new fixes it so the cycle repeated.
Does it looks like that to you? I would say they have unparallelled cultural and civilisational continuity rarily seen in any other place. And feudal empires falling is not the gotcha you think it is, especially when you look at the absolute clusterfuck in Europe (or many other places too).
Also nice deflection.
Every great empire in human civilization has fallen. China is the only one to have fallen and then gotten back up multiple times.
Like yeah China will probably fall again in the future, but the great grandchildren of everyone on this site will be long dead by then. Contrast that with America, which has had hegemony only since 1945 and already looks like it's in terminal decline.
It will fall when they abolish the state as global communism has been achieved. Unfortunately this is still well after we and our grandkids die
They've lasted less than the British! The BRITISH!
You made your point dating to the shang, and I dont disagree. Even more, you're right, feudal empires falling isn't a gotcha.
So what about a modern state being violently overthrown? Or is this different because one violent, illegiment warlord championed "the people", and proceeded to starve 200* million of them after taking power?
Which one of these two states still maintains democratic or republican ideals for the people, a reminder that real Legitimacy lay with the people.
Sorry. Just a measley 50 million people mb. Still the worst famine in history. And 100% preventable.
Modern state is when you fund yourself off of opium profits, you appoint your gangster relatives to be in charge of state finances, your officials occasionally run off to form collaborationist governments with Imperial Japan, and you're so corrupt and incompetent that your own allies are disgusted by you and you lose a war against your own people despite the military and financial backing of the most powerful country in the world.
Democratic and republican ideals is when you retreat to an island because you got your ass handed to you and then perpetrate the White Terror against your people for 40 years.
Well, as i read about the history of China, previous entity of Xia apparently didn't conquered anyone and even if they did, we don't know, written history of China start from the late Shang period.
About the rest Tankiedesantski answered you about the "republican ideas" of ROC, i can only add that even if you deflect yet again to "real Legitimacy lay with the people" there is nothing more really legitimate by the people than popular revolution which led to the state being supported by 90% of population.
Lol
Reds killed trillions
Mao paid the clouds not to rain.
What is it with you right wingers and trivalizing the holocaust?
Kindly show me where the fuck I mentioned the holocaust? Also don't appreciate you straw maning me for not simping over china.
Google "double genocide theory" dweeb.
You idiots love pretending reality is some history memes you saw on the internet, don't you?
Mmmhm, I just adore conversing with nothing but the finest internet historians, I assure you.
I'm keenly aware of the actual history, but don't give enough of a fuck to do it justice.
“I know the history I just don’t care enough to remember it”
???
somehow I doubt that
Tell that to the indigenous people of Taiwan. I bet they'd love to hear about how their genocide was "non-authoritarian".
40-ish years of military dictatorship, but they made a 228 park so it's okay
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Is that how Taiwan is seen in SEA?
Nobody in SEA likes Taiwan. It doesn't help that Taiwan has two naval bases in the South China Sea and always sides with the PRC against the rest of SEA over the SCS, mostly using the justification of "acktually the SCS is part of Chinese naval waters and we're officially called the Republic of China, so this is Taiwanese naval waters btw since we're officially called the Republic of China."
TIL tbh
It's hard to see through US political discourse
By design
Is that a bad thing? In your hypothetical situation, Chinese people should be happy about their government selling weaponry to Texas, and the Americans should not support their sale of weaponry. To compare this to the real world scenario, Chinese people should feel angry about this and Americans should feel good. I don't really get the point you're trying to convey with your analogy.
Not everyone is a chauvinistic shithead