I saw Barbenheimer the weekend it came out. Oppie is overrated as shit. I liked it but Barbie was 3x better. It’s apparent in the way women are written and the fact that Greta, Margot and Barbie are being snubbed for Nolan is a disgrace.
Oppie isn’t even his best work and it sure as shit doesn’t deserve a dozen fucking Oscar noms.
Whatever criticisms you have of Barbie being white/pop feminism are absolutely tossed aside when fucking OPPENHEIMER is the one winning shit. Cmon.
They’re giving noms to Poor Things instead of it as the “feminist” film cuz they’re cowards scared of women succeeding behind the camera in addition to in front of it and in the box office, and they’re horny teens horned up by Emma Stone and enraged Margot didn’t do that.
Edit- And before you come at me, I saw Oppie on proper film. Don’t tell me I didn’t get it or didn’t have a good experience or whatever. I liked it. But Barbie was better.
barbie had a whole scene where a mean angry feminist bullies Barbie for destroying girl's self image, and her character arch is accepting that Barbie are good. it's an anti-feminist movie made to sell toys and punch down on actual feminists. how anyone could call themselves a leftist and think that this toy ad is feminist is beyond me. thisis like when people argue that black panther is a politically sound movie. enjoy your slop, don't pretend its feminist.
I’m not going to argue feminism here. You could argue Barbie and slutty Halloween dresses and fucking bikinis are pro-feminism or anti-feminism till the sun envelopes the earth.
But here’s what I know.
Nearly every woman I know was super excited to see the film. They couldn’t stop talking about it in a way they didn’t about other movies. We were planning out what to wear and if it would match and there was a genuine sense of excitement and camaraderie there even before the movie came out.
Then, on the day, fucking everyone wore pink. Everyone said “hi Barbie” in the theatre. During the film, the entire crowd, which was filled with women in a way I found so comforting and reassuring, laughed and whooped along with the movie.
Afterwards too we couldn’t stop buzzing about it. Anyone we met on the street who was wearing pink? Hi Barbie!
Was it basic? Yes. Was its feminism and (lack of ) criticism of capitalism a bit safe? Of course. But literally everyone I went with knew that going in. We are all leftists of different flavours and we still enjoyed the moment and the communal sense the movie was able to create in a community that often lacks such spaces in cinema.
And we fucking felt that lack when we went and saw Oppie next. The difference was fucking stark. I may not have even caught on it had I not seen Barbie first but I’m glad I did. Watching Barbie and Oppenheimer back to back forces you to see the way women are portrayed on screen by women and by other men. People talk about the “Male Gaze” but this is how you really experience it. It’s not just women’s bodies being looked at.
No, I could feel the camera in Oppenheimer look at its women, especially during certain scenes, like a predator would on a prey. It made me feel disgusted and unsafe.
It’s hard to even explain it properly.
Anyways, what I’m trying to say - there’s a lot more to life, and there’s a lot more to leftism, than just debating theory and whether or not something is good or bad. It’s important to cultivate a sense of community and recognize the things that do it and why they are able to do it. Of course Mattel is a horrible company. Everyone knows it. That doesn’t mean the sense of community we felt during Barbie was not genuine. You’ve got to be able to understand that if you want to take your politics into the real world.
you're the one calling barbie feminist im just diagreeing, so its odd to start your response that way .you could say the exact same thing about black panther, does that make it anti-racist, or pro black liberation? you are the one calling barbie feminist I'm saying its not. i saw barbie in pink with my friends we had fun, I had fun at black panther too, that doesn't mean anything, just because something make you feel good doesn't mean its feminist. lastly its hard to take your condescension about the real world seriously when we you are defending the BARBIE movie, I probably am in the top 20% of grass touchers on this site. in the real world people are allowed to disagree with popular opinions, I don't base my opinion on movies by whats popular, we live in a patriarchy its should not be shocking that an anti feminist move would be popular, that doesn't mean I have to call it feminist. its fun slop, enjoy it, love it, wear pink with your friends every Friday but just don't call it feminist. your allowed to enjoy things just don't try to force everything you like into your politics. also oppenhiemer was dogshit just dogshit in every way, I don't know what you keep comparing these two movies barbie was 100000% better then oppenheimer could ever dream to be.
one more thought.
barbie is a CHILDREN's movie, children do not know that Mattel is bad. this is a movie that implies "a bad feminist critiques capitalism, consumerism, and misogyny in the way women are represented, and a good feminist complains about the vague concept of patriarchy and never identifies which systems are oppressing them and also mattel is cool and you should buy barbies" children will see the bad angry anti-capitalist feminist character and try to not be like her and try to be soft and palatable like barbie. this movie send a shitty message to kids, the target audience who are unlikely to know as much as a leftist adult.
I’ve read your replies to mine and other’s comments in the thread. I’m sorry for coming across as defensive and attacking.
Even if I think Barbie does have redeeming parts and is not as bad as you make it out to be, the point you raised here is extremely important and one I hadn’t thought of. So thanks for bringing it up.
Much love and solidarity.
love and solidarity comrade, and you know this is not THAT big af a deal but i do disagree. i do hope they win costuming and set design. and greta gerwig is one of the best directors out there right now, she will 1000% get her flowers, honestly I'm pretty excited to see what she does next. i think shes in the perfect position to tell a studio to let her make whatever the fuck she wants and I think is gonna be great.
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This is one bit I'd definitely disagree on - Barbie is a children's brand, but this specific movie is directed squarely at adults (at the very least, older teens who are over Barbie). The movie was meant to recapture part of an older market that has outgrown the dolls, but could be convinced to buy for their kids or, with declining birth rates limiting future profits, to buy other merchandise.
Making Mattel bumbling fools allows them to acknowledge previous controversies without taking responsibility by pretending everything was just a big mistake by people trying to do their best.
my theater had many kids.
So did Deadpool - I'm not saying no kids were taken to see it, but it wasn't made for them.
You're right about Barbie (I haven't seen Oppenheimer). The jokes were good but even an uncritical reading of its message fails. It needed to articulate a real theory of change through collective action, not vague "trick the men somehow", but it couldn't be revolutionary because it was at its core an ad for Mattel toys (and GM electric vehicles lol). I was honestly amazed to hear arguments about how it's impossible for women to meet the contradictory feminine ideal applied in genuine defense of a DOLL. Extremely clever, pernicious co-optation. Punching left with the wokescold caricature girl to attack radical feminism seals the deal for me. Pink bloc and Hi Barbies! are important; the movie intends to bring "feminism" to everyone by having it mean nothing (and by enormous advertising spend).
However we need to put this in the site header carousel messages right away:
I did 10% at first but then I humbled myself. There are some serious grass touchers out here.
they added it !!!!! uncritical support to peoples revolutionary site tagline mods
hahaha yes! thanks for telling me!
this should be a tagline
Woman in real life literally told me “this is the first movie I’ve watched that makes me feel seen”
and I have never seen a mainstream movie the bashes leftists and feminists as much as Barbie did. so glad you met a woman who agrees with you, good for you! you want a gold star? the barbie movie was deeply mean-spirited, like one of the most I've ever seen directed by women, if you want me to provide a personal anecdote it reminded me of being called a "removed" my entire life since the age of 6. it reminds me of being bullied for thinking that girls aren't shallow empty creatures, it portrays people who critique capitalism as bullies who don't let women exits as they are. feminism is not a popularity contest, just because capitalists have found a version of feminism that is highly profitable doesn't mean you need to call that feminism. I'm sorry your idea of feminism is so shallow and useless. like as a former little girl I can tell you this movie would not have been good for me to watch, it basically tells women to shut up and consume or else they are a mean angry feminists. this movie has done more harm to feminism than it could promote feminism. look at this thread! you are all just parroting the feminist-bashing message of the movie. also your friends should watch more movies, there are disnely channel movies with the same message as barbie but without the anti feminist pro-capitalist messaging.
Genuinely thank you for saying this
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ive seen it 4 times with different friends, maybe you should watch it again because holy shit if you think a throw away joke about how MEN are bad and not capitalism redeems the movie feminist bashing I don't know what to tell you. also you missed the part where the "bully" character learns to stop worrying and love barbie uncritically beside some quips like mentioning the concept of white feminism before the narrative proves her wrong every time. like most of her lines are JOKES at the expense of feminists, its not just the scene its the whole movie. this movie is one of the best anti feminist movie in the sense that it gotten so many people to uncritically bash ACTULL feminist thoughts and ideas and reduce them into jokes.
I guess i just read it as a “wow gen z is so real #slay” bit joking about kids roasting adults, I can understand reading it that way though and it makes more sense to
you wanna get obnoxious and emotional? fine this movie quite literally reminded me vierserally and painfully in the theater of cw sexual assault
spoiler
MANY MANY men threatening to rape/ beat the "removed" out of me. it reminded me of being beaten with hockey stick in middle school by white girls for not liking feminine things enough and being labeled an angry lesbian in middle school. i reminded me of everytime is was told to shut up, or that I was talking to much about injustice, it reminded me of every white woman who has condescended to me. it reminded me of constantly being the joke of the family for not laughing at misogynistic jokes. this movie is MEAN this movie is shitty towards anyone outside the strict box they pretend feminsim is
anyway go read bell hooks's many critiques of women like your friend.
with that context it makes sense you would hate it, there isn’t really any actual intersectional solidarity or analysis in the film or anything. I’m sorry for invalidating you like that
i really appreciate you your apology. have a good day comrade. and I DO see your points.
nooooo worries comrade!! thanks for hearing me out!
A thing I found rather gross about the Barbie movie, was that the CEO of Matte, Ynon Kreiz,l is an Israeli. This made the plot point of the opressed Himbo traveling to the real world and relating not to the oppressed but to the oppressors too real..since that's common rhetoric. Especially now with Israeli's genocide on Palestine.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/meet-the-israeli-american-mattel-ceo-who-ushered-barbie-to-the-screen/