This post has mentioned chauvinistic, misogynistic, and toxic tendencies three times but provided literally no examples of such - nor did Carcosa's original post. I am not trying to say that these things have never existed or never will exist in posts/comments on my beloved Hexbear nor am I saying that you (or any other admin/mod) should have to provide examples of literally any/everything TC69 - but I am begging you to actually provide some legitimate examples because otherwise this just sounds like the same "we don't want the dunk tank because white cishet male behavior" justification that everyone was like to
You want examples of these issues? The mod log is publicly open to see what kinds of content gets removed
But if the mods are removing these posts then it seems as if the problem is being resolved right there? Why do we need more rule changes to entire coms or the site, or site-wide discussion of our culture when the rules that already exist are being well-enforced? It seems unreasonable to expect that a rule-breaking post never gets made in the first place.
The modlog literally does not include the comms for any post, removed, locked or otherwise and cannot be searched by reason or otherwise, so telling someone "go look in the modlog" is - in my opinion - unhelpful as hell to any justification the mod/admin team is making about any comm or the site culture as a whole. Like I said in my original post, my intent is obviously not to downplay any actual misogyny, chauvinism, etc but to close two of the most popular comms for such things - I would expect you (i.e. the admin/mod team) to at least have some sort of screenshots or links to a handful of posts highlighting the issue.
How many transphobic posts do you see nowadays
Very few because of the mod team - but should we shut down Chapotraphouse, Main, and every other comm because someone might make a transphobic or misogynistic comment or post??
The justification just doesn't make sense to me.
I’ve heard whispers on the wind about the state of Hexbear – telling me that while things have massively improved for trans people, there is still work to be done in the chauvinism, misogyny, and overall toxicity departments.
What IS the source of the problem then, in your view? Should we just ban the words cocksucker, bitch, and twat since those were quite literally the reason the first two comments & post I found in the modlog, like 8 pages in, were removed for misogyny/homophobia?? It just seems like this is, like many have already said, the team intentionally being vague when really - from the 15 pages of the modlog I've looked through while writing this reply - it seems like this is a war on gendered words/insults, even if they aren't being used as such. Why would you (again, the admin/mod team) just not say that outright literally two posts ago instead of claiming it is 'cis het male behavior'??
I don't think any normal Hexbear would have a problem with any of the above words being banned. It shouldn't even really be a huge mod issue anyways, given we had - and still do have to my knowledge - a filter that will literally replace unallowed words in comments but what do I know
The modlog does kind of suck, and I think some things just aren't logged. While trying to find things to help myself understand the issue further, I came across an unrelated commbanning of someone for a surprising given reason. Then I found that there was no removal messages for the comments that incited the ban, though they were removed. Trying to parse the log itself is frustrating too, as it (and the frontend itself in some cases like viewing user profiles) tends to sort by putting every type of "content" on the list, so I'm seeing stuff from a year ago on the first page unless I limit it to a specific type of mod action, which isn't helpful when I'm trying to gauge the vibes.
Cool, like I said - I don't think any normal Hexbear is going to have a problem with this.
I have always respected you & the rest of the team for volunteering your personal time & arguably mental health to administrate this site so I won't continue airing my personal grievances with this and will wait for the next update from y'all (which is funny because I don't think I've ever actually made a Dunk or Dredge post & was quite vocal about rule-breaking posts after the notability rule was introduced) but can I say that banning @REgon@hexbear.net & a few others like @Aradina@lemmy.ml and (@morte@hexbear.net - who were in this thread adding valid criticism (especially when it comes to the misgendering/transphobia by the mod team on the previous post) and telling them to take a break is pretty shitty?
I get you're in a tough position - you haven't even been back officially for a week (afaik) and you're having to deal with arguably the biggest struggle session we've had since you left - but I don't think either 3 of those users should've been temp banned and to tell them to 'take a break' honestly is kinda irritating. This will probably sound harsh, but I think the moderators & admin team need to come to a decision on whether they want to be the user-base's babysitters or they want to be the enforcers of the actual rules of the site/comm.
Temp banning someone who arguably is one of the most justified users to be up and down this thread angry at the moderators but never actually made any insults or flew off the handle & giving a reason like "go take a break", "come back when you're not mad", or "sorry to disappoint" may work when you're talking to a child about watching the next episode of Blue's Clues, but to say that to a long-standing user (Morte has been here since the inception of the site, Aradina has been posting from .ml for over a year) when they voice disappointment with seeing how you've banned another user? Come on - I think the entire team, who again I do genuinely respect for volunteering their time and effort, should be better than that. No one even tried to make a comment like "Hey can you chill out or you're gonna catch a temp ban" but I understand why that wasn't done, it would've been seen as ridiculous and likely set them off given again - none of them were being inflammatory or insulting..
Don't really expect a reply for this - just felt like it would be wrong if I didn't point this out before logging out for a bit.
Yeah I'm tired of the vagueposting about chauvinism. It's been a thing for a while now that - funnily enough - the users who have been showing their asses for the past few days, have been pushing for a reckoning with "chauvinism" targeting the comms they dislike. It's always just been a general vague handwave about chauvinism.
Words are cheap, and they're fucking worthless when they come from people who are fine being ableist and misgendering others.
There is work to be done dealing with chauvinism, but the call is coming from inside the house.
This post has mentioned chauvinistic, misogynistic, and toxic tendencies three times but provided literally no examples of such - nor did Carcosa's original post. I am not trying to say that these things have never existed or never will exist in posts/comments on my beloved Hexbear nor am I saying that you (or any other admin/mod) should have to provide examples of literally any/everything TC69 - but I am begging you to actually provide some legitimate examples because otherwise this just sounds like the same "we don't want the dunk tank because white cishet male behavior" justification that everyone was like
to
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But if the mods are removing these posts then it seems as if the problem is being resolved right there? Why do we need more rule changes to entire coms or the site, or site-wide discussion of our culture when the rules that already exist are being well-enforced? It seems unreasonable to expect that a rule-breaking post never gets made in the first place.
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I saw a bunch of them yesterday from the anti-dunk-tank people
For example:
Misgendering from one mod to another mod, after the ban:
Just to be clear, are they exempted from the rules?
The modlog literally does not include the comms for any post, removed, locked or otherwise and cannot be searched by reason or otherwise, so telling someone "go look in the modlog" is - in my opinion - unhelpful as hell to any justification the mod/admin team is making about any comm or the site culture as a whole. Like I said in my original post, my intent is obviously not to downplay any actual misogyny, chauvinism, etc but to close two of the most popular comms for such things - I would expect you (i.e. the admin/mod team) to at least have some sort of screenshots or links to a handful of posts highlighting the issue.
Very few because of the mod team - but should we shut down Chapotraphouse, Main, and every other comm because someone might make a transphobic or misogynistic comment or post??
The justification just doesn't make sense to me.
What IS the source of the problem then, in your view? Should we just ban the words cocksucker, bitch, and twat since those were quite literally the reason the first two comments & post I found in the modlog, like 8 pages in, were removed for misogyny/homophobia?? It just seems like this is, like many have already said, the team intentionally being vague when really - from the 15 pages of the modlog I've looked through while writing this reply - it seems like this is a war on gendered words/insults, even if they aren't being used as such. Why would you (again, the admin/mod team) just not say that outright literally two posts ago instead of claiming it is 'cis het male behavior'??
I don't think any normal Hexbear would have a problem with any of the above words being banned. It shouldn't even really be a huge mod issue anyways, given we had - and still do have to my knowledge - a filter that will literally replace unallowed words in comments but what do I know
The modlog does kind of suck, and I think some things just aren't logged. While trying to find things to help myself understand the issue further, I came across an unrelated commbanning of someone for a surprising given reason. Then I found that there was no removal messages for the comments that incited the ban, though they were removed. Trying to parse the log itself is frustrating too, as it (and the frontend itself in some cases like viewing user profiles) tends to sort by putting every type of "content" on the list, so I'm seeing stuff from a year ago on the first page unless I limit it to a specific type of mod action, which isn't helpful when I'm trying to gauge the vibes.
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Cool, like I said - I don't think any normal Hexbear is going to have a problem with this.
I have always respected you & the rest of the team for volunteering your personal time & arguably mental health to administrate this site so I won't continue airing my personal grievances with this and will wait for the next update from y'all (which is funny because I don't think I've ever actually made a Dunk or Dredge post & was quite vocal about rule-breaking posts after the notability rule was introduced) but can I say that banning @REgon@hexbear.net & a few others like @Aradina@lemmy.ml and (@morte@hexbear.net - who were in this thread adding valid criticism (especially when it comes to the misgendering/transphobia by the mod team on the previous post) and telling them to take a break is pretty shitty?
I get you're in a tough position - you haven't even been back officially for a week (afaik) and you're having to deal with arguably the biggest struggle session we've had since you left - but I don't think either 3 of those users should've been temp banned and to tell them to 'take a break' honestly is kinda irritating. This will probably sound harsh, but I think the moderators & admin team need to come to a decision on whether they want to be the user-base's babysitters or they want to be the enforcers of the actual rules of the site/comm.
Temp banning someone who arguably is one of the most justified users to be up and down this thread angry at the moderators but never actually made any insults or flew off the handle & giving a reason like "go take a break", "come back when you're not mad", or "sorry to disappoint" may work when you're talking to a child about watching the next episode of Blue's Clues, but to say that to a long-standing user (Morte has been here since the inception of the site, Aradina has been posting from .ml for over a year) when they voice disappointment with seeing how you've banned another user? Come on - I think the entire team, who again I do genuinely respect for volunteering their time and effort, should be better than that. No one even tried to make a comment like "Hey can you chill out or you're gonna catch a temp ban" but I understand why that wasn't done, it would've been seen as ridiculous and likely set them off given again - none of them were being inflammatory or insulting..
Don't really expect a reply for this - just felt like it would be wrong if I didn't point this out before logging out for a bit.
Fwiw that's a good change. The second one is already a de facto banned word, just not part of the filter yet. Definitely get to that.
It's not all bad
anything in there is already getting removed though
presumably you're talking about stuff that currently isn't banned but should be, could you be specific?
Reposting my comment lol
There is work to be done dealing with chauvinism, but the call is coming from inside the house.