Yeah, I can see how there would be situations where a debate could be more advantages for socialism. Just gotta keep in mind that the facts don't matter, and therefore the person defending socialism shouldn't necessarily be someone who is extremely well read on theory, but rather someone who is very good at arguing and articulating complex ideas in simple, easy to understand ways. Preferably, though, it'd be someone with both qualities, as rare of a person as that'd be.
From everything I heard, though, this specific debate with Destiny wasn't great. Sounds like Wolff wasn't very charismatic or good at articulating his points. That combined with the fact that the audience was mostly Destiny fans who are not ambivalent on the subject and probably lean hard against socialism, made this a bad idea.
Yeah, sounds about right. I just watched it now after reading this thread and I think Destiny tbh is very uninformed about socialism and Wolff was basically trying to educate him while destiny looked for little gotchas moments and got frustrated that he couldn't get them, but if his audience is just as uninformed as he is, they may think he "won" or whatever, but some of them will learn something.
Funnily enough Wolff mentions at the very end something similar to what you and I were just talking about. "The unhappiness with capitalism and the yearning to do better is already a fact. The question is where do we go? The very fact that this discussion is happening and somebody like me was invited to participate is a sign of things to come."
Yeah, sounds about right. I just watched it now after reading this thread and I think Destiny tbh is very uninformed about socialism and Wolff was basically trying to educate him
I think this is a viable strategy more people should be engaged in. Many of these influencers are politically illiterate and only support their positions because of that illiteracy. They're not like ideological fascists or neoliberals that are politically educated and choose to be cunts because that's what they are.
People like this are in fact flippable. Up until they become educated and then maintain their position people should make every attempt to educate them. There is no reason to cast aside a person until they choose the other side AFTER becoming educated.
There are a number of gains to be made by flipping influencers specifically. If an influencer is flipped their entire audience is also flipped. This goes for communities as well. If a mod team is flipped they will often start work flipping their community.
Targeting the top of these audience<>leader relationships is very viable for building a digital vanguard of a sort. The downside with twitch influencers however is that they are petty-bourgeoise business owners, they are very unlikely to side with the left.
Yeah, I can see how there would be situations where a debate could be more advantages for socialism. Just gotta keep in mind that the facts don't matter, and therefore the person defending socialism shouldn't necessarily be someone who is extremely well read on theory, but rather someone who is very good at arguing and articulating complex ideas in simple, easy to understand ways. Preferably, though, it'd be someone with both qualities, as rare of a person as that'd be.
From everything I heard, though, this specific debate with Destiny wasn't great. Sounds like Wolff wasn't very charismatic or good at articulating his points. That combined with the fact that the audience was mostly Destiny fans who are not ambivalent on the subject and probably lean hard against socialism, made this a bad idea.
Yeah, sounds about right. I just watched it now after reading this thread and I think Destiny tbh is very uninformed about socialism and Wolff was basically trying to educate him while destiny looked for little gotchas moments and got frustrated that he couldn't get them, but if his audience is just as uninformed as he is, they may think he "won" or whatever, but some of them will learn something.
Funnily enough Wolff mentions at the very end something similar to what you and I were just talking about. "The unhappiness with capitalism and the yearning to do better is already a fact. The question is where do we go? The very fact that this discussion is happening and somebody like me was invited to participate is a sign of things to come."
I think this is a viable strategy more people should be engaged in. Many of these influencers are politically illiterate and only support their positions because of that illiteracy. They're not like ideological fascists or neoliberals that are politically educated and choose to be cunts because that's what they are.
People like this are in fact flippable. Up until they become educated and then maintain their position people should make every attempt to educate them. There is no reason to cast aside a person until they choose the other side AFTER becoming educated.
There are a number of gains to be made by flipping influencers specifically. If an influencer is flipped their entire audience is also flipped. This goes for communities as well. If a mod team is flipped they will often start work flipping their community.
Targeting the top of these audience<>leader relationships is very viable for building a digital vanguard of a sort. The downside with twitch influencers however is that they are petty-bourgeoise business owners, they are very unlikely to side with the left.