Might fuck around and make an effort-post about how the Book of Revelation is actually an extremely harsh critique of Rome, including oppressive economic systems and its slave trade. Would anyone be interested in that?
a preview: the four horsemen are all different ways of attacking Rome. The first horseman receives a laurel wreath after massacring 1/4 of the world's population (e.g., Rome conquers through violence and rewards itself with parades and literal laurels). The second horsemen takes peace from earth and violence follows, the point being that the Pax Romana is only maintained by brutal violence. The third horsemen holds market scales and raises prices of grain and barley (e.g., bread), impacting the poor most harshly. The wealthy and powerful (kings, rulers) do nothing but hide, a clear critique of an economic system that is controlled by and benefits the powerful at the expense of the poor. Fourth horsemen is death (followed by Hades). It's just the idea that death comes for us all, rich or poor.
edit: consider it done comrades, be on the look out for it in the coming days/weeks :rat-salute:
The whore of Babylon is either the merchants who profit from trading with Rome or Rome itself--the next chapter explicitly condemns merchants, the slave trade, and Rome (Rev 18). The whore of Babylon is called a "whore" because "the kings of the earth" fucked her (e.g., are literally 'in bed' with Rome's oppression), and then describes the bougiest items imaginable like gold, emeralds, rubies, etc (Rev 17).
There are two beasts, one from the sea and one from the land, but they probably represent Nero and/or the imperial cult. The beasts have dominion over all the earth--like the Roman Empire from the author's perspective. The beast shows contempt for the Christian God, like Nero did when he persecuted Roman Christians. It could also be Herod, but I think Nero makes more sense.
I remember this from Sunday school, the beast is the emperor himself (Nero at the time), and the mark of the beast is more about Roman coinage, which literally has the emperor's face on it, there's a whole thing about how people can only do commerce through the mark of the beast. Then the second beast is the imperial cult, who directs people to worship the first beast (ie the emperor), and uses the proliferation of the mark of the beast as evidence of his omnipotence.
Not positive about the whore of Babylon but I believe she's essentially the collaborators, like the people who sell themselves and their people out to Rome. Somewhat problematic but eh.
My old church was pretty rad in the grand scheme of things. Our youth leaders told us about modern Israel being founded via military occupation and ethnic cleansing, and they brought in a Palestinian activist as a guest speaker once.
that's amazing. i would love to be a part of something like that instead of "did you know that imperialism is good actually" which summarizes my church growing up
What do you make of the locusts with human faces that come out of a smoking hole to the Abyss with stingers that hurt so bad everyone wants to die for six months but can't?
I just looked up a couple of sources, and it looks like that part divine wrath against those who worship false gods, so I'd guess it mainly is talking about the Imperial cult worshippers (but not exclusively). The locust imagery comes from the OT prophets but is inverted--instead of plants with their mouths they kill humans with their tails; instead of smoke stunning them, they arise from smoke, etc.
Also the idea is that the false gods you worship are the ones that are actively harming you, so if we take an economic lens to it, it could mean that the economic system you (the wealthy) profit from is actively harming you.
We know the author of Revelation is conjuring up these images to address the wealthy because he literally says so in his letter to Laodicea (Rev 3:15-17): "I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were either cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing.’" They're complacent because they're rich, so the author wants to show them that (a) they are gaining wealth at the expensive of people's lives (b) that they need to fucking shape up and start giving that wealth to the poor if they want to survive God's wrath
Might fuck around and make an effort-post about how the Book of Revelation is actually an extremely harsh critique of Rome, including oppressive economic systems and its slave trade. Would anyone be interested in that?
a preview: the four horsemen are all different ways of attacking Rome. The first horseman receives a laurel wreath after massacring 1/4 of the world's population (e.g., Rome conquers through violence and rewards itself with parades and literal laurels). The second horsemen takes peace from earth and violence follows, the point being that the Pax Romana is only maintained by brutal violence. The third horsemen holds market scales and raises prices of grain and barley (e.g., bread), impacting the poor most harshly. The wealthy and powerful (kings, rulers) do nothing but hide, a clear critique of an economic system that is controlled by and benefits the powerful at the expense of the poor. Fourth horsemen is death (followed by Hades). It's just the idea that death comes for us all, rich or poor.
edit: consider it done comrades, be on the look out for it in the coming days/weeks :rat-salute:
Please do this. High quality content
How do you interpret the Whore of Babylon and the Beast? They are my favourite parts.
The whore of Babylon is either the merchants who profit from trading with Rome or Rome itself--the next chapter explicitly condemns merchants, the slave trade, and Rome (Rev 18). The whore of Babylon is called a "whore" because "the kings of the earth" fucked her (e.g., are literally 'in bed' with Rome's oppression), and then describes the bougiest items imaginable like gold, emeralds, rubies, etc (Rev 17).
There are two beasts, one from the sea and one from the land, but they probably represent Nero and/or the imperial cult. The beasts have dominion over all the earth--like the Roman Empire from the author's perspective. The beast shows contempt for the Christian God, like Nero did when he persecuted Roman Christians. It could also be Herod, but I think Nero makes more sense.
I remember this from Sunday school, the beast is the emperor himself (Nero at the time), and the mark of the beast is more about Roman coinage, which literally has the emperor's face on it, there's a whole thing about how people can only do commerce through the mark of the beast. Then the second beast is the imperial cult, who directs people to worship the first beast (ie the emperor), and uses the proliferation of the mark of the beast as evidence of his omnipotence.
Not positive about the whore of Babylon but I believe she's essentially the collaborators, like the people who sell themselves and their people out to Rome. Somewhat problematic but eh.
your sunday school sounds like it rules, mine was shit like the EU is babylon and credit cards are the mark of the beast and shit
My old church was pretty rad in the grand scheme of things. Our youth leaders told us about modern Israel being founded via military occupation and ethnic cleansing, and they brought in a Palestinian activist as a guest speaker once.
that's amazing. i would love to be a part of something like that instead of "did you know that imperialism is good actually" which summarizes my church growing up
Sounds dope as hell
I need to know more comrade.
that would be cool :fidel-salute-big:
What do you make of the locusts with human faces that come out of a smoking hole to the Abyss with stingers that hurt so bad everyone wants to die for six months but can't?
:jesus-christ:
I just looked up a couple of sources, and it looks like that part divine wrath against those who worship false gods, so I'd guess it mainly is talking about the Imperial cult worshippers (but not exclusively). The locust imagery comes from the OT prophets but is inverted--instead of plants with their mouths they kill humans with their tails; instead of smoke stunning them, they arise from smoke, etc.
Also the idea is that the false gods you worship are the ones that are actively harming you, so if we take an economic lens to it, it could mean that the economic system you (the wealthy) profit from is actively harming you.
We know the author of Revelation is conjuring up these images to address the wealthy because he literally says so in his letter to Laodicea (Rev 3:15-17): "I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were either cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing.’" They're complacent because they're rich, so the author wants to show them that (a) they are gaining wealth at the expensive of people's lives (b) that they need to fucking shape up and start giving that wealth to the poor if they want to survive God's wrath