Not gonna pretend that the unhoused in this situation are being helped or anything, but it goes to show that the US government is capable of improving things for its people but choses not to.
Also, remember when Beijing hosted the Olympics and Westoids accused China of hiding all the beggars? Lmao.
It’ll be so funny to be Xi and have knowledge of the homeless problem in San Francisco and constantly bringing up questions like
- oh did you put them into housing or state run dormitories?
- i was led to believe you actually didnt care about your population.
- so can we visit these housing facilities you’ve moved your homeless population into?
- surely you havent pushed them out further into the street by destroying their encampments
- what’s under this suspicious looking table cloth? May I take a look underneath?
I get what you mean, but China's managed to do a lot of good by not publicly humiliating the US and just focusing om their problems. If he intentionally antagonized the US it would make the current situation more tense and likely end in bloodshed.
Yes, and you call them “public housing”, despite the fact they are obviously underneath a bridge.
In China, building 20,000 apartments can take 9 months and cost a billion dollars.
How did you manage to house 20,000 homeless people in only a few weeks? I must find out more of this miracle of capitalism!
Every accusation is a confession holy shit lol
President Xi please, my people yearn for freedom!
But when other countries outside of
do it, it gets coverage to really hammer home how disingenuous their dictators are and how their country really is just terrible, those poor 3rd worlders having to live like this, if only they could become smart and have a liberal democracy and join our rules based international-order.I don't mention it much because of that, but when I went to China there were a bunch of people living in caves who were walking down (~0.5miles) to a river to get water. There is still a gap between policy and achievements, it's just not useful mentioning it in most places. But I wonder sometimes how much of the attitude about China being utopian is a bit and how much is true belief.
In general I have developed a huge amount of uncertainty in regards to foreign affairs/conditions because you both can't really trust that news isn't carrying foreign policy and devoid of a lot of deep cultural & historic context I am not sure you can develop reasonable interpretations even if the news is true.
Hopefully no one here thinks it's utopia. They have generally better policies economically than the US but there's still a ton to do on all aspects, not to mention social conservatism runs rampant there.
But I'll support them over the US and the west on most things, which is generally I think where the confusion comes in
That's assuming they're living in the US. Compared to Guatemala, China does feel like a utopia. It was very surreal to be walking down a street and not fear getting mugged or hearing gunshots. The standard of living is lower compared to what many Americans are used to but it's significantly higher than anything I've seen in Guatemala.
There were some pretty bleak signs of poverty as well like you mentioned and the social conservatism is something I'm very used to experiencing in Central America. I wish we could one day raise our standard of living the way China has, but corruption in the government runs so deep that I doubt it will ever happen.
Compared to what you're describing, my shithole (Iran) is also a 34th century mega utopia
The point of comparison shouldn't the the lowest possible denominator or it's meaningless
I wouldn't say Guatemala is the lowest possible denominator when we have a higher standard of living than Iran.
I mean lmfao if you're hearing gunshots and shit outside then your standards are definitely much lower than us
Looked into it and yeah you're right. We make slightly more money but live less, are less educated, and experience more violence. Despite all that it surprisingly isn't that much lower.
Still wouldn't say we're the lowest possible denominator when El Salvador and Honduras exist right next to us. Calling China a utopia is definitely an exaggeration but it was especially inspiring to see it's growth from when I first went in the 90's to the 2010's. Seeing the strides it took and the astronomical growth from what I saw in the 90's blew me away. It was different than my experiences in Germany or the US because I understood how those countries attained their wealth.
China being a country that's part of the global south made the leaps and improvements that much more inspiring. It was much safer than what I experienced in the US and on par with Germany. It would be nice to see countries like ours attain a standard of living on par or better than China's. There are times when I have my doubts because of how corrupt the institutions are in our countries. Costa Rica and Panama have proven that some level of development is possible with them surpassing both of ours in standard of living, but even they have their setbacks.
Dollar exchange rates make Iran look much more shit than it really is, so I'm not surprised.
Anyway yes, China has done a great deal, and we should learn from them to reach our own potential
Yeah my view point is very western centric if I wasn't clear, I have no place to talk from your perspective and was not attempting to speak from it
I pray it's a bit otherwise this site is mostly full of delusional contrarians.
It's not a bit, they're objectively superior to the west when you adjust for GDP and population density
Obviously the west has absolute higher living standards on average (just don't ask about the median) because they, you know, live on multiple continents of land stolen within the last 200 years. But even despite this, China has a lower homeless rate than the US
https://i.imgur.com/jrnArxa.png
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At any given time it's contrarianism, mental-health saving delusion, bit, and slight hyperbole in varying amounts. It's the biggest force doing anything good in the world right now, so even though it's got problems I want to hold it up.
China still has a loooong way to go when it comes to development, especially in rural areas. Even I'm first rate cities like Shanghai, there are still deficiencies. For example, it's generally not recommended to drink tap water without boiling.
That being said, I think that the key difference between China and the West is one of trajectory. Every time I visit China, the place I was at last time is better, newer, more developed. When I visit the West, things tend to be either the same, or have new improvements but surrounded by poor people and the homeless.
This is supported when you look at surveys of public sentiment. Most Chinese people think that they will be better off in 5 years. Most Westerners think the opposite.
China is in no way a utopia. It may one day become a utiopia, but that's long in the future. For now, it's enough for most Chinese that their lives are getting better every year.
I went to several cities in the the Henan province (primarily Zhengzhou) in 2019 & no I don't speak Chinese.
Rural China and urban China feel like two completely different worlds. There's a reason China has built up a housing surplus...
India got slammed for this shit at the G20 summit in New Delhi
Meanwhile San Francisco:
These kind of storys are standard background noise for every olympic competition and FIFA WC.
I mentioned this on a previous thread but I still find turning San Fransisco into a Potemkin village to impress the general secretary of the communist party of China to be peak satire
Doubt it's for Xi specifically really. 22 other world leaders and a shit load of billionaires will be in attendance.
Damnit Awoo! Don't take this from me. i need this
Lmao it is very funny that the conservative media is going all-in on selling this as all because of Xi though.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12734925/San-Francisco-conducts-massive-cleanup-operation-clearing-homeless-ahead-APEC-trade-summit.html
Conservatives will use this to show how easily they could “solve” poverty if elected
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I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Yes, this isn't much of a solution save for pushing towards a final one. Beating the poors off the streets because you have important dinner guests coming over should not be looked to as aspirational
demolishing a bunch of homeless camps and throwing them in jail or moving them over to another side of the city isn't fixing anything though
Xi should insist on staying in a cheap motel or something like that time Castro came to New York and stayed in Harlem
I think the Hotel wanted like 20k per day from Castro. So Malcolm X invited him to stay on a hotel he knew in Harlem.
iirc, they had arranged a suite for him in a segregated hotel and he said nope fuck that.
Watched that big Castro docu a few weeks ago. The hotel he had originally stayed in threw out the Cuban delegation because of public pressure. Castro threatened to camp out in front of the UN and that's when the Theresa Hotel in Harlem offered him to stay there for free and he took them up on the offer. Sorta sparked the long-standing solidarity between Cuba and Black liberation more generally
They talk about it here. Whole thing is worth watching tooI found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I've weirdly haven't seen many Libs on
talking about this. You think they'd be frothing over it.This has to objectively look like a win for Xi right? So the 'objective' liberal media has to mostly ignore it. The reactionary media can just outright lie and spin in the dumbest ways, so they get this story.
I think liberal media can't explain why China is an evil enemy that they need to disconnect from while at the same time allowing Xi to come to america and do a trade summit to attract investment to China, so they ignore it rather than have liberals asking questions like that.
I went back and forth over if this belongs in the Dunk Tank, because "ProudArmyBrat" is definitely some sort of chud who has reactionary opinions of the unhoused.
I do not endorse removing the unhoused to maintain an image, but at the same time I don't think the current US policy of just letting the problem fester is tenable either. There needs to be concerted government effort to house, employ, and otherwise rehabilitate (from addictions, illness, etc.) the unhoused. That effort is portrayed as impossible or unrealistic by both parties but this temporary cleanup is at least a shadow of a step towards doing something to help the unhoused and those around them.
I get it, but whoever once lived in a tent there is now still unhoused and their tent and any belongings has been destroyed by SF police.
this temporary cleanup is at least a shadow of a step towards doing something to help the unhoused and those around them.
bro whatever sweeps they did only exacerbated things and are absolutely not a step towards anything, nor are they novel. cities have been sweeping camps for years.
I demand to see photos of Xi in a Walmart surrounded by state department suits admiring produce.
Holy shit, I remember that! Thing is, the city I live by does that ANNUALLY for an international event they put on. Gotta push the unhoused people deeper into the slum areas or arrest them for the week, can't let the international community see our shame.
