I don't really know much about it other than I've heard people say they don't like Leninists. But like...why? The worker soviets are literally councils that served essentially the same function as what council communists want, but with the party serving as a vector for that organization.

Also, Lenin frequently brings up the Paris Communé when discussing the soviet revolutionary model. He talks specifically about how the initial revolution creates a bourgeois state "without bourgeoisie" and eventually withers away into what you'd call council communism.

Like council communism is just the "higher stage" of communism (or the communist stage of socialism) right? The model exists under Leninist organization and the contradiction of Leninism is the political/bureaucratic elite that isn't the workers. The difference between this state and the bourgeois state is that its really fucking weak usually. Like think about the "fall of communism", it was easily toppled, but instead of getting council communism (which is what the workers would have done if left to their own devices) they reverted to capitalism due to massive intervention of the existing well armed and funded capitalist powers.

  • Gkalaitza [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    My understanding is that Luxemburg was far from a council communist, a commited vanguardist with some different ideas of how that would apply to Germany (and this isnt even contrary to leninism, since lenin when writting in a non Russian contexts of what is to be done, wrote stuff pretty much in line with Rosa as far as vanguard practices and party structures go, and the way most people understand today Luxemburgism doesnt exist as a coherent formulated thing . Luxemburg was just an orthodox revolutionary marxist somewhat to the left of the then paradigm (second international) ,similar to Lenin. I struggle to see how you would formulate an ism out of it and idk if Luxemburg would have had either.

    Worse than that the history of "Luxemburgism" is negative since the term was invented to purge Luxemburg & her influence from German Communism & make sure her theoretical works were buried deep under. Being a "Luxemburgist" in the 1920s meant opportunism & "right deviationism." , it wasnt formulated as some tendency around Rosa's contributions.

    Edit: This article is an amazing dive into what actually Luxemburg positions were and all the ways they have been missinterpreted and wrapped through the years https://theacheron.medium.com/the-myth-of-luxemburgism-25f63d0e3efd

    • Hungover [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      I've now read half of the article and will probably read the other half later today, but as of now I feel like it trivializes Rosa's contentions with Bolshevik policy. Of course that stems from material conditions, but everything does. And nobody could seriously claim Rosa opposed the Russian Revolution or something like that.

      To avoid posting "out of context quotes" I highly encourage everybody to read Chapter 6 of The Russian Revolution, it is a very short read.

      • richietozier4 [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        tbf, that pamphlet was written before she undertook her own revolution, thus before she had to actually face running it, after which she became much more authoritarian

    • Mardoniush [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      What Hungover kind of said, I think Luxemburgs critiques of Leninist policy were quite substantial and make her, if not a full tendency, at least a variant of proto-leninism. Even Trotsky had far less disagreement with Lenin imo.

      But also I don't think we really disagree all that much, Rosa and Lenin were very much of the same mind in general principles, just in different material conditions. While I wouldn't define the German Left Coms as Right deviationist per se, I do think they were terribly wrong headed and warped Rosa's critique of Leninism into a full break.

      Luxemburgism, as far as it exists, is simply a set of tools and theoretical critiques that modify rather than replace ML. Which frankly is what I think tendencies should be anyway.