Edit- y’all are getting salty. Clearly I agree with Lenin that revolutionaries should work in reactionary parliaments. But that is not the same as the DSA who think electoralism is the key to meaningful change, and not a combination of legal and illegal strategies.
Of course it's not a 1-to-1 comparison but dismissing the largest "left" org in the US that does far more work than electoral politics as a waste (which is the implication of this meme) just so that some ultra-online leftists can feel better about themselves doing nothing can get pretty tiresome so I'm not going to do more work on finding a more apt comparison.
Sure if you think social democratic reforms from them are acceptable
Local DSA in my area has literally fought police, pushed to defund them, organized labor , fed those that are hungry, and break people into homes to squat who need them.
Those are slightly more than socdem reforms but go off.
Oh are they based in revolutionary theory and identify themselves as a vanguard party?
Forgot that strict application of ML ideology is the only way to abolish capitalism my bad.
Make sure you get up every hour or you'll get sores from your armchair.
Removed by mod
Thats great & I really hope you are able to make headway on that. We're all in the same struggle, but I hope you aren't as prickly IRL as you are online because if you have this attitude in person it is going to be a lonely time trying to organize. I hope you are happy and more importantly active in the party so that one day we can work together.
You're also moving the goalposts on what I'm saying, though. You're shitting on people in the DSA for not having pushed the communism button already. What I'm saying is its the largest "left" vehicle in the US and lots of the local orgs do good, revolutionary work. What I'm saying is not everyone is going to slot in to a newly formed vangaurd party (or have one locally to slot into) and shitting on those trying to move the world forward is needlessly confrontational.
The influx of soc dems on this site change the rhetoric and goals of people here overall. We shit on Bernie and AOC for doing A and B, yet the cognitive dissonance about the effectiveness of the DSA is ignored. If they are arguing that reforms can be voted in, then that is what they’re going to believe how actual, meaningful change is brought about.
I’ll refer to Lenin’s LWCAID, specifically the chapter Should We Participate in Bourgeois Parliaments?
I'm once again begging you to actually read my comments before soapboxing against things I'm not even saying.
I'm not saying that telling people to :vote: is the good part of the DSA. It's not. I'm not an electoralist, I don't find it a useful vehicle for material change. However, there ARE good parts of the DSA where many localities have book clubs that participate in education revolutionary theory, organize labor, and perform direct action against the state.
You also just linked something from 1920, which was written by someone who had to learn throughout his life through his own experience that electoral reform is a dead end, yet shit on people going through that on their own.
How will libs move further left if the organization overall wants soc dem style reforms? If the leadership is full of libs, how will that not effect the actions of the group as a whole? If it is not centralized and chapters/localities are doing things on their own, won’t that lead to individualism and idealism , and a dissolutions to how the masses can come together and agitate for change?
And if I linked to a book someone wrote about in the past struggles with bourgeois parliaments, why should people need to go through this struggle on their own? Read theory and see how past revolutions and revolutionary experiences have worked and how they relate to us today. If it wasn’t relevant, it would have been lost to time and chastised by other communists. But Lenin don’t miss. :lenin-shining:
Lol go say this to an Amazon delivery drivers face and report back
A meme is a meme, i dont expect it to provide in depth critique of the function of the DSA and the person's outlook on whether or not organizing around and inside it is the correct way forwards. If thats where they are coming from its simplistic and infamatory to channel your opinions on the subject in a gotcha meme format. Unless you drop the 10 paragraph leftist meme format you are basicaly begging to be interpreted as " DSA does nothing , nothing correct ,arent allies and sucks ass lmao "
In general maybe im projecting my own critiques to this and OP doesnt have any nuanced critique on the matter but dismissing the DSA as the main vehicle for struggle and radicalization towards socialism in america, thinking that its general approach and structure has a very low ceiling of results it can bring and revolutionary progress it can make is a position that i think is legit from a leftist perspective, even if its simplisticaly and secreterian-y presented in the meme. Its normal these dumb internet enviroments for some comrade that may have these critiques and nuanced "anti-dsa" stance if you ask them to elaborate to present them in this negative and surface level antagonistsic way .
Its doesnt and shouldnt mean a dismissal to all things the dsa does, hell not even most of their local work and neither a dismissal for the comrades that organize there. Doing that is ultra leftism i agree. But the original position about the dsa can exist without these ultra leftiss and i wouldnt call any comrade that holds this opinion an armchair larper shit on him cause "DSA big left org in america" and comparisons that dont hold water. Tho the way OP chose to post his brainworms on the subject doesnt leave much room for good faith discussion
These opinions and discussions shouldnt be posted and be had in meme posts and presented in their most simplistic , and thats the OPs fault. I'd probably agree with their position on how and why the dsa isnt the viable org for the american left going forward unless its reformed in structure and approach