It's easy to say that it feels like a psyop, but the levels of class reductionism - that is to say - the knee-jerk ridicule of intersectional shit or critical race theory stuff feels highly suspect. Like, you can't say white people are nerds (which they are) in a lot of anti-woke left spaces without harsh rebukes, and it seems really suspect to me. Is there a real fash pipeline in our midst? Are class reductionist white people that sensitive and defensive and... well... white to the point that they can't let go of their privilege even in the context of them being left?

    • Phillipkdink [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Criticizing white people for having unexamined internal biases and privilege is good, however.

      While I agree in principle, I think it's important to ask what the point of a leftist space is. Is it to criticize each other until everybody uses the same language, or is it for coalition building?

      Like imagine trying to form a union at but then shaming all your co-workers who aren't perfectly woke in all ways. It would be a complete disaster.

      Once a coalition is built and people feel accepted they maybe can be brought in to the fold and educated about some of their views that may be reactionary. I just worry that leftists don't always have a good sense of when a struggle session makes a community stronger and when it works to tear a community apart.

        • Yuri_The_Red [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I’m not talking about being hyper twitter wokescolds, but there’s obviously a baseline of sensibility and acceptability that should be employed

          Unfortunately terminally lib-brained Americans can’t accept this fact even when they organize

        • Phillipkdink [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Do you want to build a coalition with marginalized peoples, or do you want to make a white guy union?

          Neither, I want a union that can organize and wield power to achieve an objective. And guess what? Sometimes people who join a union have reactionary views and yes that sucks, but part of organizing is recognizing people can be comrades even if they do have unsavoury views. But the point of organizing isn't to make everyone have nice views, it's to consolidate power between groups.

          So what we talking about here? Are we talking about some leftist space that doesn't allow casual pejoratives about white people but does allow similar casual pejoratives about <oppressed minority x>? That's a pretty hard leftist space for me to imagine but sure, in that hypothetical chances are pretty good they need an intervention because that very likely alienates potential comrades.

          But being willing to call everybody a bigot who doesn't have sufficient education to understand the nuances of privilege is a death stroke for organizing.

          • OgdenTO [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Definitely take Combat Liberalism to heart. That Mao character knows what he's talking about.

            Don't overlook opinions and views that harm the group. That is, if you want a coalition, make a coalition that doesn't tolerate alienation. Like, you don't have to fix it, but bigoted statements are unacceptable.