I'll add as many anti-Israel emotes as y'all and I can come up with except the one where we're toeing the line into, and I hate to use this phrase as a cracker but I don't know how else to describe it, generational trauma. I know the holocaust has been cynically weaponized by this freak fascist ethnostate to do unspeakable horror, but it's innately uncomfortable even as part of the anti-Zionist diaspora to make something like this. It fucking sucks, and I'm sorry, but that's why I scoured for any other representation of Israel that doesn't invoke Judaism as a whole.
I didn't really look at it, but I remember a few years ago when we were arguing about adding that we shouldn't do a burning an IDF flag because of the star of david. I think, anyway. I don't remember what we were arguing on this website last week, let alone two years ago
this is the Israeli army flag, there's a sort of abstract star-of-david-ish shape in the middle, kinda? not the same as the IDF flag, which is green and yellow
Is there a flag with Golda or Bibi on it that we can use? We gotta find you some good alternatives, cause yeah using the star of david is not a good look
I just want to say that I also completely understand and agree with you. It may be too much and unnecessary to have a burning Star of David.
According to Gershom Scholem, the Star of David (magen David) has since only the 19th century been used as a representation of Jewish people as a whole but was used for specific and special religious rituals by Jewish people for far longer. It was probably only because of its use to generally symbolize Jewish people starting in the 19th century that it was picked up by the Zionist movement and now as we know it is sadly intertwined with it. I do find the co-option of the Star of David by Zionism to be reprehensible and, of course, Zionists will also use it in a hateful way which is disgusting, so I don't think Foucaults is wrong in pointing out that it has regrettably added a new chapter in its history, namely in being a hate symbol. But I don't think this discounts its history of meaning as being a deeply religious, ritualistic symbol for the Jewish people since at least the seventh century BCE according to Scholem. This is the tricky part of dealing with fascist/fundamentalist movements which co-opt religious or ethnic symbols and utilize them as a sign of their movement. We want to justifiably reject their movement but we also don't want to identify the symbol, or the people of the symbol, with their movement in the first place because that is exactly what they want—so it takes some care to attack the true enemy. In this case, I think a burning Star of David can be considered an anti-Semitic symbol much in the same way as an emoji of a burning menorah, or a burning Tetragrammaton or any of the Holy Names or even just the Yod. These are all deeply religiously Jewish symbols and should be understood as such. As Leftists we should not always let the Right use or take what they want and I think this is one of those cases when we should still support our Jewish comrades in rupturing Zionism from Judaism and the magen David, specifically.
I'll add as many anti-Israel emotes as y'all and I can come up with except the one where we're toeing the line into, and I hate to use this phrase as a cracker but I don't know how else to describe it, generational trauma. I know the holocaust has been cynically weaponized by this freak fascist ethnostate to do unspeakable horror, but it's innately uncomfortable even as part of the anti-Zionist diaspora to make something like this. It fucking sucks, and I'm sorry, but that's why I scoured for any other representation of Israel that doesn't invoke Judaism as a whole.
This might be my suburbanite americracker brain showing, but it's really my only major line-in-the-sand. Sorry.
Backing you up on this one.
Your justification makes sense to me, good on ya, comrade
Uncritical support.
honestly I'm still surprised we even added
considering that there is still a burning star of david on it.
It’s abstracted enough. Genuinely didn’t even notice till you pointed it out
I didn't really look at it, but I remember a few years ago when we were arguing about adding
that we shouldn't do a burning an IDF flag because of the star of david. I think, anyway. I don't remember what we were arguing on this website last week, let alone two years ago
this is the Israeli army flag, there's a sort of abstract star-of-david-ish shape in the middle, kinda? not the same as the IDF flag, which is green and yellow
wait, then why is it called idf-cool if it's the israeli army and not the IDF?
Israeli army is a branch within the IDF, so it's same difference. it's just snappier
Nah this is a good call
Is there a flag with Golda or Bibi on it that we can use? We gotta find you some good alternatives, cause yeah using the star of david is not a good look
I just want to say that I also completely understand and agree with you. It may be too much and unnecessary to have a burning Star of David.
According to Gershom Scholem, the Star of David (magen David) has since only the 19th century been used as a representation of Jewish people as a whole but was used for specific and special religious rituals by Jewish people for far longer. It was probably only because of its use to generally symbolize Jewish people starting in the 19th century that it was picked up by the Zionist movement and now as we know it is sadly intertwined with it. I do find the co-option of the Star of David by Zionism to be reprehensible and, of course, Zionists will also use it in a hateful way which is disgusting, so I don't think Foucaults is wrong in pointing out that it has regrettably added a new chapter in its history, namely in being a hate symbol. But I don't think this discounts its history of meaning as being a deeply religious, ritualistic symbol for the Jewish people since at least the seventh century BCE according to Scholem. This is the tricky part of dealing with fascist/fundamentalist movements which co-opt religious or ethnic symbols and utilize them as a sign of their movement. We want to justifiably reject their movement but we also don't want to identify the symbol, or the people of the symbol, with their movement in the first place because that is exactly what they want—so it takes some care to attack the true enemy. In this case, I think a burning Star of David can be considered an anti-Semitic symbol much in the same way as an emoji of a burning menorah, or a burning Tetragrammaton or any of the Holy Names or even just the Yod. These are all deeply religiously Jewish symbols and should be understood as such. As Leftists we should not always let the Right use or take what they want and I think this is one of those cases when we should still support our Jewish comrades in rupturing Zionism from Judaism and the magen David, specifically.