Hey @Dirt_Owl . I'm gonna copy-paste my message from somewhere else because I was talking about it with some of my friends :
I think it's not a good idea to switch into "post hog" mode too soon and when it's not entirely clear that the person you're now bullying is actually a chud/troll, and in this case yea, I think it's too soon. It can become very weird and gross, and the "post hog" thing is already weird and gross, albeit effective on the right target. The right target was also on reddit, and hexbear isn't reddit. I feel like this is still kinda carrying some reddit-brainism in some way and I don't know if it's in any way useful/effective enough on hexbear to justify the negative effects.
Buuuuut, I also think the user that got bullied rightfully got push back, this media narrative needs to be kill-on-sight. It's extremely worrying how a lot of the left accepts it just on technicalities (oh no it escaped a lab but they weren't doing it purposefully), which of course if this version of the narrative ends up working it will not stop there, the leftists who support it will then go "Oh no! I didn't want to blame china, I just thought it was plausible and a valid theory that it could have accidentally escaped!"
There you go. This isn't against you personally, but I felt like I should share my thoughts on this.
Making some people uncomfortable is good actually. Men being forced to feel a bit of sexual discomfort is a good way to highlight the creepiness of sexist behaviour and I miss unapologetically making men feel uncomfortable from the /r/shitredditsays days.
No I agree! But there's the gray area of: Is the person you're doing to actually deserving of it (chud/troll/etc) or is it more internal debate/confusion which to me doesn't warrant this, and also is the person you're doing it to a dumb fucking reddit guy or not. If someone after a heated conversation does this to an enby or trans comrade for example, I don't really like that at all.
It's about target I guess, and I'm wary of people jumping the gun and piling on a bit too early. I'm not comfortable with people having an "excusable" form of being creepy and harassing if it sneakily extends beyond justifiable targets. I don't know if I'm being clear, sorry. I do get your point tho.
Mistakes should be fine too though? To a leftist getting called a chud is going to be more upsetting than the show me your dick part. Anyone that knows what the purpose of "post hog" is will immediately be like "Oh no what am I saying that is making people think I'm a chud?" rather than getting uptight about the thing itself. Why? Because every leftist here knows it's not a legitimate request to post hog.
SRS was fantastic and I miss its active period often. Reddit lost its shit about us every single day and it was probably the most enjoyment I ever got out of that site.
I agree. That's what post hog is supposed to be, right? Using the Chud sexism against them. Considering all the times I was told "Tits or GTFO" it feels good to dish it back.
Reddit lost its shit about us every single day and it was probably the most enjoyment I ever got out of that site.
Frankly, this is the real reason we enjoy the "post hog" meme. It's just our version of triggering the libs -- directing spite at people you despise is enjoyable. This is the honest motivation, and stuff about highlighting the creepiness of sexist behavior is the cover we give ourselves. Obviously the target isn't going to get that from "post hog," and anyone reading along probably isn't, either.
More broadly, we need to reconsider whether being assholes to people online is the best way to get wherever we're trying to go.
Where are we "trying to go" ? If you're referring to site growth I have a very hard time thinking post hog has anything to do with site growth when worse exists elsewhere. Site growth is a content and advertising problem rather than a comments section problem.
That's a good question. Bullying trolls and chuds is a good way to get them to leave, but that's kind of it. Being an asshole online (in many forms, not just telling people to post hog on here) has some big limitations if the goal is anything else.
I think one of the more important jobs it does is dismantle the image of the left as weak, an image that has been very successfully forced on the left due to the way liberal moralisers have always behaved. We must be careful not to become moralisers, and utilise available strategies as and when they are appropriate tools to do so.
Our community image online should be one that creates curiosity in people when they hear about us. If the chuds talk about us as absolute psychopaths that make them uncomfortable while the left talks about us as a place that has cool content and cooler people then we would be doing something right. What we need to focus on however is the content, having content here that is consistently the content people want to see elsewhere.
Why? Because content can't be propagandised about. You can't go into discords and reddit communities and tell people that all we do is have struggle sessions and fight over pronouns or vegans or whatever silly shit is flavour of the week in regards to CONTENT. People will see Hexbear content posted elsewhere and say "I want to see more of this" and thus come to the site.
What matters is content, content, content. The community behaviour is actually secondary and simply something internal in my opinion.
Yes I did. Making men uncomfortable is extremely powerful for women's liberation. Own medicine from time to time helps a lot, particularly with the people that completely lack empathy, many people need to physically feel it first in order to then empathise with it correctly.
Yeah, I'm pretty good at spotting a concern troll fairly early, but you are right. I should be careful not to come across as a creep if I end up guessing wrong one day.
You're actually terrible at spotting a concern troll, because I'm not one. I've been commenting on various accounts here and in the old /r/CTH for several years. That's why I took such offense.
(oh no it escaped a lab but they weren’t doing it purposefully)
accidentally escaped
Neoliberal (libertarian) capitalism is defined by privatization of industries that are normally socially controlled. It's probably Obama's fault for his lack of attention towards the increasingly deregulated academic industrial complex
I agree with your first part, but I don't think theory needs to be kill-on-sight. Despite the huge political ramifications, the origin of the virus is still fundamentally a scientific question, and that entails considering every possibility that's scientifically plausible. We just have to be careful about how we integrate those facts into our worldview and discourse.
For example, consider a hypothetical racist who argues that the fact that the AIDS virus originated in Africa is somehow evidence of the inferiority of black culture. The right way to argue against logic isn't to push back against the proximal history of the virus, it's to point out the absurdity of using that fact to denigrate an entire group of people.
I don't know if you've seen this thread : https://hexbear.net/post/114586 but I feel like it's a very good one with great discussions.
It doesn't matter if it's "possible", this is not in the realm of a scientific question because this is happening in the media. The media isn't scientific, the media has agendas and interests, and there's a clear pivot and realignment with the american libs/democrats/biden behind this. Even acknowledging it's possible is giving them ground, because there is not even any reason to ENTERTAIN the idea. Nothing has emerged, no evidence point to it, the few things that the media is focusing on is either entirely (and provably) made-up, or has as a sole source the US state.
This isn't the discussion that is happening in the scientific sphere, a discussion that ALREADY happened and was already thoroughly looked into because yes, it is important for the scientific community. What's happening is entirely in the media sphere, not in the scientific one. This is media trench-warfare, entertaining this as a "possibility" is giving ground, it will be followed by more, and more, and more, and more, to push into the new cold war agenda and justify specific actions. The truth doesn't matter to them, and I don't want us to get played.
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
In this case, it's a difficult dance. Because if it can, any kind of discussion/concern/acknowledgment will be used to further the media narrative, regardless of the original intention.
I realize that any public calls for investigations related to China would be fraught and simply used as cover for imperial meddling, which is why I would tread carefully if I was an authority figure with any kind of broad public audience, and would probably avoid the world altogether.
I was speaking hypothetically/philosophically about the necessity for looking down all avenues. The reason I entertain these ideas personally is because I'm very curious about the virus. I'm a scientist, I can't help myself.
There's a difference between acknowledging the possibility that it came from a lab and asserting that as a fact. Probably the best way to do the former while countering the propaganda angle is to say that when you mean it might have come from a lab, you're talking about a U.S. lab.
Bonus points if you mention that incredulously, in the style of "well of course we're talking about a U.S. lab, we're naturally the ones most likely to do something this shitty."
I am the banned subject of this dunk and you are correct. I have been around since /r/CTH and I was one of the original "post hog" people.
I'm absolutely disgusted by the use of it here to shut down legitimate discussion. Anybody who read the entirety of that thread could see I was participating in good faith.
I'm not going to re-litigate this here but the lab theory is not propaganda and the harder this community fights it the more disconnected from reality it will become.
Hey @Dirt_Owl . I'm gonna copy-paste my message from somewhere else because I was talking about it with some of my friends :
I think it's not a good idea to switch into "post hog" mode too soon and when it's not entirely clear that the person you're now bullying is actually a chud/troll, and in this case yea, I think it's too soon. It can become very weird and gross, and the "post hog" thing is already weird and gross, albeit effective on the right target. The right target was also on reddit, and hexbear isn't reddit. I feel like this is still kinda carrying some reddit-brainism in some way and I don't know if it's in any way useful/effective enough on hexbear to justify the negative effects.
Buuuuut, I also think the user that got bullied rightfully got push back, this media narrative needs to be kill-on-sight. It's extremely worrying how a lot of the left accepts it just on technicalities (oh no it escaped a lab but they weren't doing it purposefully), which of course if this version of the narrative ends up working it will not stop there, the leftists who support it will then go "Oh no! I didn't want to blame china, I just thought it was plausible and a valid theory that it could have accidentally escaped!"
There you go. This isn't against you personally, but I felt like I should share my thoughts on this.
Personally think "peepee or gtfo" is hilarious.
Making some people uncomfortable is good actually. Men being forced to feel a bit of sexual discomfort is a good way to highlight the creepiness of sexist behaviour and I miss unapologetically making men feel uncomfortable from the /r/shitredditsays days.
No I agree! But there's the gray area of: Is the person you're doing to actually deserving of it (chud/troll/etc) or is it more internal debate/confusion which to me doesn't warrant this, and also is the person you're doing it to a dumb fucking reddit guy or not. If someone after a heated conversation does this to an enby or trans comrade for example, I don't really like that at all.
It's about target I guess, and I'm wary of people jumping the gun and piling on a bit too early. I'm not comfortable with people having an "excusable" form of being creepy and harassing if it sneakily extends beyond justifiable targets. I don't know if I'm being clear, sorry. I do get your point tho.
Mistakes should be fine too though? To a leftist getting called a chud is going to be more upsetting than the show me your dick part. Anyone that knows what the purpose of "post hog" is will immediately be like "Oh no what am I saying that is making people think I'm a chud?" rather than getting uptight about the thing itself. Why? Because every leftist here knows it's not a legitimate request to post hog.
You said this way better than I could as a shit bird. Thank you 4 being gud with mouth words.
This is good comment, 10/10
I completely and 100% agree.
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I said making men uncomfortable is good actually.
SRS was fantastic and I miss its active period often. Reddit lost its shit about us every single day and it was probably the most enjoyment I ever got out of that site.
I agree. That's what post hog is supposed to be, right? Using the Chud sexism against them. Considering all the times I was told "Tits or GTFO" it feels good to dish it back.
Frankly, this is the real reason we enjoy the "post hog" meme. It's just our version of triggering the libs -- directing spite at people you despise is enjoyable. This is the honest motivation, and stuff about highlighting the creepiness of sexist behavior is the cover we give ourselves. Obviously the target isn't going to get that from "post hog," and anyone reading along probably isn't, either.
More broadly, we need to reconsider whether being assholes to people online is the best way to get wherever we're trying to go.
Where are we "trying to go" ? If you're referring to site growth I have a very hard time thinking post hog has anything to do with site growth when worse exists elsewhere. Site growth is a content and advertising problem rather than a comments section problem.
That's a good question. Bullying trolls and chuds is a good way to get them to leave, but that's kind of it. Being an asshole online (in many forms, not just telling people to post hog on here) has some big limitations if the goal is anything else.
I think one of the more important jobs it does is dismantle the image of the left as weak, an image that has been very successfully forced on the left due to the way liberal moralisers have always behaved. We must be careful not to become moralisers, and utilise available strategies as and when they are appropriate tools to do so.
Our community image online should be one that creates curiosity in people when they hear about us. If the chuds talk about us as absolute psychopaths that make them uncomfortable while the left talks about us as a place that has cool content and cooler people then we would be doing something right. What we need to focus on however is the content, having content here that is consistently the content people want to see elsewhere.
Why? Because content can't be propagandised about. You can't go into discords and reddit communities and tell people that all we do is have struggle sessions and fight over pronouns or vegans or whatever silly shit is flavour of the week in regards to CONTENT. People will see Hexbear content posted elsewhere and say "I want to see more of this" and thus come to the site.
What matters is content, content, content. The community behaviour is actually secondary and simply something internal in my opinion.
It can be both things.
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Yes I did. Making men uncomfortable is extremely powerful for women's liberation. Own medicine from time to time helps a lot, particularly with the people that completely lack empathy, many people need to physically feel it first in order to then empathise with it correctly.
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:cia: :big-cool:
SRS was a very good time
He edited it. The original comment was "Show me your penis."
Show me your penis.
My position stays the same.
Yeah, I'm pretty good at spotting a concern troll fairly early, but you are right. I should be careful not to come across as a creep if I end up guessing wrong one day.
naw dont get self conscious.
if you evr arent sure tho tag me and ill tell em to post hog
FilthyAvian solidarity
:bird-salute:
:meow-hug:
You're actually terrible at spotting a concern troll, because I'm not one. I've been commenting on various accounts here and in the old /r/CTH for several years. That's why I took such offense.
Okay, but when are you going to post your hog?
I'm... not a man? I don't have a hog?
Get one from the hog store, I can wait.
pathetic
I know, you're taking up valuable hog posting time. You hate to see it.
So what you're saying is that we should create a post-post hog community
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A post-post-pig-poop-balls community, PPPPB if you will :thonk:
same class, same material interests, Papa Johns
Neoliberal (libertarian) capitalism is defined by privatization of industries that are normally socially controlled. It's probably Obama's fault for his lack of attention towards the increasingly deregulated academic industrial complex
counterpnt: posting hog is fnny & if theyr here then they can handl it as a digg
I agree with your first part, but I don't think theory needs to be kill-on-sight. Despite the huge political ramifications, the origin of the virus is still fundamentally a scientific question, and that entails considering every possibility that's scientifically plausible. We just have to be careful about how we integrate those facts into our worldview and discourse.
For example, consider a hypothetical racist who argues that the fact that the AIDS virus originated in Africa is somehow evidence of the inferiority of black culture. The right way to argue against logic isn't to push back against the proximal history of the virus, it's to point out the absurdity of using that fact to denigrate an entire group of people.
I don't know if you've seen this thread : https://hexbear.net/post/114586 but I feel like it's a very good one with great discussions.
It doesn't matter if it's "possible", this is not in the realm of a scientific question because this is happening in the media. The media isn't scientific, the media has agendas and interests, and there's a clear pivot and realignment with the american libs/democrats/biden behind this. Even acknowledging it's possible is giving them ground, because there is not even any reason to ENTERTAIN the idea. Nothing has emerged, no evidence point to it, the few things that the media is focusing on is either entirely (and provably) made-up, or has as a sole source the US state.
This isn't the discussion that is happening in the scientific sphere, a discussion that ALREADY happened and was already thoroughly looked into because yes, it is important for the scientific community. What's happening is entirely in the media sphere, not in the scientific one. This is media trench-warfare, entertaining this as a "possibility" is giving ground, it will be followed by more, and more, and more, and more, to push into the new cold war agenda and justify specific actions. The truth doesn't matter to them, and I don't want us to get played.
I'm aware of that bogus intel/media dump based on the supposed hospitalization rate in Wuhan or whatever.
I'm talking about the scientific discussion I alluded to here, which predates that story by a few months.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. In this case, it's a difficult dance. Because if it can, any kind of discussion/concern/acknowledgment will be used to further the media narrative, regardless of the original intention.
Agreed. I would push back against the narrative certain contexts.
Why are you even entertaining this stuff man?
Because the origin of the virus is still unknown, and learning the truth requires entertaining possibilities and investigating them.
You realize it's going to be the United States "intelligence community" doing this investigating right, like practically speaking
I realize that any public calls for investigations related to China would be fraught and simply used as cover for imperial meddling, which is why I would tread carefully if I was an authority figure with any kind of broad public audience, and would probably avoid the world altogether.
I was speaking hypothetically/philosophically about the necessity for looking down all avenues. The reason I entertain these ideas personally is because I'm very curious about the virus. I'm a scientist, I can't help myself.
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I agree, except because we don't yet know the truth, asserting that it came from a lab at this point is bold.
There's a difference between acknowledging the possibility that it came from a lab and asserting that as a fact. Probably the best way to do the former while countering the propaganda angle is to say that when you mean it might have come from a lab, you're talking about a U.S. lab.
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:sicko-hair:
Bonus points if you mention that incredulously, in the style of "well of course we're talking about a U.S. lab, we're naturally the ones most likely to do something this shitty."
Yes, I love it! :sicko-speeeeen:
Did they say it was fact, or a possibility that we shouldn't poo poo (pig poo?)
Sounds like hysterics to me. Everything so far points to this being a spillover from an animal and animalistic in its entire origin.
Unless some credible source says otherwise I’m not going to worry about any other small possible point of origin.
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I'm sorry, it was a rude comment. I apologize.
I am the banned subject of this dunk and you are correct. I have been around since /r/CTH and I was one of the original "post hog" people.
I'm absolutely disgusted by the use of it here to shut down legitimate discussion. Anybody who read the entirety of that thread could see I was participating in good faith.
I'm not going to re-litigate this here but the lab theory is not propaganda and the harder this community fights it the more disconnected from reality it will become.