Though socialist groups in the West tend to be secular, Christianity remains culturally hegemonic to such a degree that figures are appreciated in proportion to how well they fit a narrative template of martyrdom.
Imagine being so Eurocentric that you think all martyrdom narratives are necessarily Christian.
"Christianity revolves around a martyrdom narrative. Many Western socialists have martyrdom narratives. The West is historically Christian. Therefore, there is a direct influential link of Christianity on Western socialist martyr narratives."
The bad-faith argument is making the extraordinary claim that "a background of a certain religion in a region means that even countercultures in that region will act under its cultural hegemony".
It's literally pointing at all of the West and saying "I can use Christianity to explain this". It's a giant leap across a chasm in logic.
Another factor that is very common in the western left is to treat suffering and extreme poverty as elements of superiority. It is very common in Western leftist culture to support martyrs and suffering. Everyone today likes Salvador Allende. Why? Salvador Allende is a victim, a martyr. He was assassinated in Pinochet’s coup d’ etat. When Hugo Chávez was alive, many sectors of the left turned their nose up at him. If he had been killed, for example, in the 2002 Coup attempt, he would be adored by the immense majority of the western left today, as a symbol of suffering and martyrdom. Since he continued exercising power as leader of a political process which, by necessity, had various contradictions, he was increasingly abandoned, as time passed
The Western Left absolutely has a losing fetish. It's one of the things our enemies point out the most often!
That excerpt is spot-on. It's even more noticeable when you talk to people who might be edging towards leftist ideas, but who aren't leftists yet. Bring up that Allende was couped by the U.S. and you get immediate sympathy, but you'll get "well that's different" if you bring up Venezuela.
Oh wow a supossed ML failing to do historical material analysis... Maybe US leftists laude Allende because doing so points out the imperialist crimes the US has done. Meanwhile, openly supporting "official state enemies" like Chavez or Maduro will get you censored, persecuted, and harassed by the state and capital. Maybe those material conditions have more to do with why western leftists fail to support Maduro and Castro than some idealist nonesense about a christian martyrdom. Its as absurd as saying Castro and Chavez weren't western and weren't influenced by Christianity.
How about Vietnam? We fought an actual war against their state, they WON, and now you almost never hear a peep from the Western Left about Vietnam... Compare that to the Ls we celebrate all the time.
You're getting the relationship the text is stating backwards.
Here's their thinking:
The west was historically Christian and Christianity has a martyr narrative. Many people in the west, despite being secular, are still influenced by Christianity. Because of this, these people often associate a martyr narrative with being good.
atheism in america, is a false mind paradigm that actually sucks you into the SAME good/pure evil/corrupt puritanical mindset.
in reality, atheism should be "secular buddhism" imo. just talk to someone from eastern countries v western.
yall are still being mind controlled by christianity if you dont understand the dualistic nature of our world.
I heard this very useful parable: the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
what im trying to say is stop letting others tell you what to think WHICH MANIFESTS as GOOD vs EVIL. you will miss a lot if you think you are a "good" guy, and think you are supposed to avoid "bad" things. You cannot be good if you do not know what bad is. you cannot understand others, until you understand yourself. letting others put ideas in your head (like the idea that communism is bad, or that stalin was pure evil) is the actual BAD. Like YOOU KNOW that your intuition ALWAYS told you that communism, and the attempts were a progression of humanity, but for so long you denied yourself that information because stalin bad.
It's saying that Christianity has a prominent martyrdom narrative, Christianity is hegemonic in the west, so therefore western leftists view martyrdom positively. It's not saying that all martyrdom narratives are Christian.
It's like saying that English uses pronouns, English is hegemonic in the U.S., so therefore U.S. leftists use pronouns. That doesn't imply the author thinks pronouns are an exclusive feature of the English language.
Imagine being so Eurocentric that you think all martyrdom narratives are necessarily Christian.
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"Christianity revolves around a martyrdom narrative. Many Western socialists have martyrdom narratives. The West is historically Christian. Therefore, there is a direct influential link of Christianity on Western socialist martyr narratives."
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Okay I left out a word, so sue me.
The bad-faith argument is making the extraordinary claim that "a background of a certain religion in a region means that even countercultures in that region will act under its cultural hegemony".
It's literally pointing at all of the West and saying "I can use Christianity to explain this". It's a giant leap across a chasm in logic.
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Perhaps Christianity-centrism.
https://redsails.org/western-marxism-and-christianity/
The Western Left absolutely has a losing fetish. It's one of the things our enemies point out the most often!
That excerpt is spot-on. It's even more noticeable when you talk to people who might be edging towards leftist ideas, but who aren't leftists yet. Bring up that Allende was couped by the U.S. and you get immediate sympathy, but you'll get "well that's different" if you bring up Venezuela.
Oh wow a supossed ML failing to do historical material analysis... Maybe US leftists laude Allende because doing so points out the imperialist crimes the US has done. Meanwhile, openly supporting "official state enemies" like Chavez or Maduro will get you censored, persecuted, and harassed by the state and capital. Maybe those material conditions have more to do with why western leftists fail to support Maduro and Castro than some idealist nonesense about a christian martyrdom. Its as absurd as saying Castro and Chavez weren't western and weren't influenced by Christianity.
How about Vietnam? We fought an actual war against their state, they WON, and now you almost never hear a peep from the Western Left about Vietnam... Compare that to the Ls we celebrate all the time.
What the flying fuck are you talking about? We never shut the fuck up about the Vietnam war. Have you missed the weekly prayers for Kissinger's death?
Please elaborate.
That's my point - lots of talk about the war, very little about the actually existing Socialist Republic of Vietnam.
A losing fetish? Sure. But not a heavily Christian-influenced nature.
You're getting the relationship the text is stating backwards.
Here's their thinking:
The west was historically Christian and Christianity has a martyr narrative. Many people in the west, despite being secular, are still influenced by Christianity. Because of this, these people often associate a martyr narrative with being good.
atheism in america, is a false mind paradigm that actually sucks you into the SAME good/pure evil/corrupt puritanical mindset.
in reality, atheism should be "secular buddhism" imo. just talk to someone from eastern countries v western.
yall are still being mind controlled by christianity if you dont understand the dualistic nature of our world.
I heard this very useful parable: the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
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what im trying to say is stop letting others tell you what to think WHICH MANIFESTS as GOOD vs EVIL. you will miss a lot if you think you are a "good" guy, and think you are supposed to avoid "bad" things. You cannot be good if you do not know what bad is. you cannot understand others, until you understand yourself. letting others put ideas in your head (like the idea that communism is bad, or that stalin was pure evil) is the actual BAD. Like YOOU KNOW that your intuition ALWAYS told you that communism, and the attempts were a progression of humanity, but for so long you denied yourself that information because stalin bad.
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If A, then B.
Observation: B. Therefore, A.
That's what the logic of the text is saying.
It's saying that Christianity has a prominent martyrdom narrative, Christianity is hegemonic in the west, so therefore western leftists view martyrdom positively. It's not saying that all martyrdom narratives are Christian.
It's like saying that English uses pronouns, English is hegemonic in the U.S., so therefore U.S. leftists use pronouns. That doesn't imply the author thinks pronouns are an exclusive feature of the English language.
A vast majority of US leftists use English.
Does a vast majority of western leftists adhere to Christianity? No. So your metaphor really breaks down there.
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That's a stronger argument.
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