I remember a short book called "The Spider Web" or something writed by a german dude in ~1925 predicting the nazi party.
"Dude I just came back from 1919!!"
"Holy shit it worked! Did you get him?? Did you kill Goering?"
"What? No I killed Hitler, just like we talked about"
"I don't know who the fuck that is. You didn't fucking kill Goering?? Who the fuck is Hitler, Hitler what? So you didn't get Goering, he still killed 11 million Jews and I'm all out of plutonium. For fucks sake."
"Wait what"
Most people don't know that Hitler didn't even found the Nazis he was just being used as a public speaker by the real leader Anton Drexler. But Drexler got sick and Hitler realized he could easily soft coup Drexler and become both the face and leader of the Nazi Party. Drexler ate shit a little while later and the rest is history. You'd have to kill a lot of ghouls to keep Nazism from developing, thanks a fucking lot SDP for unleashing the freikorps.
On the other hand the communists were pretty consistently on their heels in terms of size and popularity at the time. So affecting their popularity and reach might have gone a long way
That's actually a good point. Maybe Hitler didn't matter much for the early rise of Nazism or for the pretty impossible military goals of the Nazis, but was actually vital for their marketing efforts, and caused the whole fascist takeover that way.
This is your brain on liberal great man theory: if only someone killed hitler there would be no nazi party!
Being anti-Great Man Theory doesn't mean you have to discount any and all individual actions. It's not unreasonable to think that a Nazi Party under different leadership would've failed to take power as they did.
I don't think he was the deciding factor, but he could have quite possibly been a deciding factor.
Hitler under different material conditions wouldn't have done what he did, but the same conditions with a different Nazi leader could quite easily have led to a different historical outcome.
Nah I'm pretty sure the Holocaust was pretty close to the worst possible outcome.
More Holocaust and the german general staff being left alone enough to cause more harm
could quite easily have led to a different historical outcome
That is a bit vague and a lot speculation. The red army would've fought the Nazis anyhow. That much was inevitable.
I don't think there's any guarantee that the Nazis would even come to power. They barely managed it in real life, another leader could've failed where Hitler was lucky to succeed.
Maybe in the absence of a successful Nazi Party a revanchist conservative Germany would've fought the Soviets in a similar WWII but yeah that's all speculation. Doubt a Hindenburg would go all exterminationist in that scenario though.
You know, you really are pushing the "Great Man Theory" of history bit here. I recommend not to do that. Neither the Nazi party organization, nor the contradictions of the Fascists in the parliamentary system are explained by one person.
The parliamentarians would've given any major party official the same rights as Hitler and even if they wouldn't have gotten the legality they would've taken the power. The only counter defense were leftists and those were killed and crushed by the reactionaries and social democratic elites.
Look at Italy in which Mussolini was just given the leadership of the country. There is little reason to believe that a "milder man" wouldn't have started an war of aggression, too. This was inevitable for many reasons, some are economic, some are to deliver on debt.
I don't want to talk any further, but really implore you to give us clear references for your opinions, who came to those conclusions, why and if you reference books, tell us the pages and paragraphs (which isn't possible tbh).
You know, you really are pushing the “Great Man Theory” of history bit here.
Nah I'm not, Chapos are just over-inclusive of what counts as 'Great Man Theory'.
They're not the primary drivers of history as GMT claims, but individuals and their actions can still heavily influence history.
Hitler had nothing to do with Prussia and yet the Nazi police force kicked down the doors of my socialists grand grand parents.
Hitler had nothing to do with Prussia
Hitler was the Fuhrer of Prussia.
You are too historically illiterate to lead this discussion. Papen was the leader of Prussia during the Preußenschlag.
Not my fault you're being too vague about what you're talking about for me to respond properly, and I don't see how your point is relevant anyway?
No Hitler's public speaking ability did have a large effect on the success of the Nazi party.
I said “no nazi party” not that they could’ve have failed without Hitler. Though that’s still hard to believe since the fascist reaction happened every where so clearly didn’t rely on Hitler being Hitler
yeah but there was also a communist reaction in Germany at the time the Nazi's gained power of similar size
I generally agree, but I think it’s not the wisest move to discount the notion of everyone being a unique person some of whom are rarer combinations of things and as such history would be different if certain prominent figures had a heart attack or healthier home life.
Sure the overall forces and trends remain, but the details would inevitably differ to a noticeable degree in the most minor altered timelines, unless the forces are so monumental and focused free will might as well not exist.
I’m not convinced freewill exists anyways, but if it does I think horseshoe theory applies to the “great man libs” and the “humans are cookie dough and societal trends are the cookie cutter” types.
Stand up straight with your shoulders back until you get accepted into Vienna art school.
See, this is actually something I think in theory could be fun, take people throughout history and try to work on their issues, I would enjoy that. If it was designed by real psychologists. But knowing this info about how the developer is a Peterson stan, no, that's bullshit.
What kind of liberalism is this? I lost count around the 69th...
Alternate History- Hitler doesn’t form the Nazi party and instead becomes a Trotskyist. Then goes on to form it anyway. Lol
This game could be good if it just ends every time with the player character killing Hitler.
If the Red Army is dealing more than 50 dps then the Nazis are gonna need at least two healers on Hitler.
It’s ok, he just ragequits when it’s clear they’re gonna be team wiped anyways.
Ngl: I really like both the name and concept of this game.
Bruh just kidnap baby hitler and dump his ass in a russian orphanage, this shit ain't complex
Not exactly quacks, but like
Ok Aristotle was one of the early guys to be like "wow we should start to figure out stars and shit"
That was great, but his particular conclusions were not great, like the sun orbits the Earth. It was a good first crack at it.
Same with Freud. "Wow let's figure out people's brain and shit, now that we know it's not devil spirits. Maybe everyone wants to fuck his mom"
And of course we all know it was their dad all along
To play devil's advocate, those were the theories available at the time.
Also in fairness, we don’t know what modern psychology would be like if we brought the rampant cocaine abuse back.
