So, I fully support trans people competing with cisgender people in sport. I also think there's loads of sports where you could gender desegregate it - basically all the sports that don't rely on strength and size.

So I said that bit, but then I also said that if you desegregated sports like swimming, football, rugby, etc etc, then you would never see a woman in a top team or on the podium at the Olympics ever again. Is that not factual? Even Ledecky, who is a ridiculously good swimmer, would not even make the men's swimming final at the Olympics.

I think you could desegregate sports at lower levels too - I've seen it done and experienced it. I was in a middle tier team in cricket with a bunch of dinguses, and the sometimes Women's A Team players would join our matches. They were as capable or better than the blokes most of the time. However, these women went on to play internationally, on TV, picking up contracts and stuff by playing against other women. If it was desegregated she'd be playing with shmucks like me who never even really liked cricket.

Am I wrong?

  • beefandbellpeppers [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    One solution to this is to simply abolish competitive sports. Intramural only, no score keeping, absolutely no record keeping whatsoever. Only playing for fun is allowed.

    Just throwing that out there.

    • Pezevenk [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Yeah let's just abolish with one stroke something that millions depend on for employment, and that even more care about and have cared about since forever, because we can just do that, right?

      You can play for fun, not everyone sees it that way though lol

      • beefandbellpeppers [none/use name]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Literally not one downside for the vast majority of people. Genetic freaks like Michael Phelps won't be aggrandized and held up as role models even though none of us could reach the same level.

        You wanna watch a game you just go down to the local ball park and chill.

        • Pezevenk [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Literally not one downside for the vast majority of people

          No downside for anyone except for the people who are in any way whatsoever affected by or care about any of this.

          • beefandbellpeppers [none/use name]
            ·
            3 years ago

            By what, not having their little treat of spectacle? Under communism, everyone's needs are met. Where does elitist competitive athletics fit into this model?

            • Pezevenk [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              By what, not having their little treat of spectacle?

              You realize there's literally millions of people extremely dedicated in competing against other high level athletes and many times more people who are very invested in these sports, and that this will never change just because you decided to "abolish" it, right?

              Like it doesn't really even matter that you have this opinion since it will never even come close to materializing into anything and no one relevant to the subject will ever take it seriously but I still don't understand why you hold it.

              Under communism, everyone’s needs are met. Where does elitist competitive athletics fit into this model?

              I have no idea what one sentence has to do with the other or what you think "elitist" means. Competitive sports aren't (in general) "elitist", they are elite, this is not the same thing and I still don't see what it has to do with communism.

                • Pezevenk [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  What happens post revolution that somehow makes people go "you know what? Competitive sports? Dumb. I'll just drop it all because the only reason I ever cared about competing for the best performance/watching sports was capitalism I guess"?

                  If anything the opposite happened in almost every place post revolution lol

                    • Pezevenk [he/him]
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      How would it resolve any of the issues? The issue does not exist for those who don't care to compete or otherwise don't care anyways, it only exists for those who do, and for those people eliminating the competition doesn't solve their issue, it creates a bigger one, which is "now I don't have the thing I care about". It's like saying that the problem of whether you or your sister gets to play first is solved by throwing your console out of the window, it's not exactly a solution, it's a larger problem.

                      • beefandbellpeppers [none/use name]
                        ·
                        3 years ago

                        I had a response typed to the other user but they had the grace to bow out and I'm gonna emulate that behavior because they were right this is getting very reddit debatebro-y!