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"They wrote entire books like this one about how their version of socialism is not utopian"
"Our version of society, our version of socialism and communism that we want to create, is specifically different from [...]"
I appreciate the work that this Comrade is doing, but these lines also lay bare that he himself hasn't fully grasped what they were saying because Marx and Engels had no so-called 'version' of any society. Furthermore, framing his argument in this way weakens it because now it commits the no true Scott's fallacy. Having said that, he's on the right track. Socialism Utopian and Scientific attempts to explain that any socialist society that could possibly exist would by necessity have to be non-utopian and grapple with the material realities upon which it is growing out of.
Yes, but also Marx and Engles distinguish "Utopian" from "Utopia".
The goal is still humanity at peace with itself, doing cool shit. Marx et al just use a scientific and materialist methodology to sketch out how it might be possible to remove the primary barriers to building this society, without prescribing its forms beyond broad economic descriptions, unlike what earlier socialists did with their precise models of production.
I appreciate the work that this Comrade is doing, but these lines also lay bare that he himself hasn't fully grasped what they were saying because Marx and Engels had no so-called 'version' of any society. Furthermore, framing his argument in this way weakens it because now it commits the no true Scott's fallacy. Having said that, he's on the right track. Socialism Utopian and Scientific attempts to explain that any socialist society that could possibly exist would by necessity have to be non-utopian and grapple with the material realities upon which it is growing out of.
Yes, but also Marx and Engles distinguish "Utopian" from "Utopia".
The goal is still humanity at peace with itself, doing cool shit. Marx et al just use a scientific and materialist methodology to sketch out how it might be possible to remove the primary barriers to building this society, without prescribing its forms beyond broad economic descriptions, unlike what earlier socialists did with their precise models of production.