Official CCP announcements shortly after the event put the number who died at around 300. At the State Council press conference on June 6, spokesman Yuan Mu said that "preliminary tallies" by the government showed that about 300 civilians and soldiers died, including 23 students from universities in Beijing, along with some people he described as "ruffians".[190][199] Yuan also said some 5,000 soldiers and police were wounded, along with 2,000 civilians. On June 19, Beijing Party Secretary Li Ximing reported to the Politburo that the government's confirmed death toll was 241, including 218 civilians (of which 36 were students), 10 PLA soldiers, and 13 People's Armed Police, along with 7,000 wounded.[152][200] Mayor Chen Xitong said on June 30 that the number of injured was around 6,000.[199]
So, at LEAST 300 people died. That's a shitload of people for one plaza. I would still classify that as a "massacre".
I'm a tankie and I agree with you. It was a massacre, and an excessive one at that. I disagree that it makes me "just as bad as the holocaust deniers" though. You have to understand the context here.
Hungary fell earlier that year, and there was massive unrest in Poland, East Germany, and many other countries across eastern Europe. 1989-1991 saw the complete collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. There was a real threat to communism in China. By May of 1989, a student-led hunger strike galvanized support around the country for the demonstrators, and the protests spread to some 400 cities. This was not a single city protest. This was a huge movement that threatened to overthrow the government. This all led up to the incident at Tiananmen Square. Was it brutal? Sure. Was it as bad as the western media says? Probably not.
In the next decade, the eastern bloc would suffer massively, and China not as much. Today the former communist bloc states are still suffering, while China continues to improve living standards. If comrades like @emizeko could back me up with a couple charts of the fall of living standards in the former USSR and the rising living standards in China I would be much obliged.
Denial from tankies. Here's Wikipedia's take:
So, at LEAST 300 people died. That's a shitload of people for one plaza. I would still classify that as a "massacre".
I'm a tankie and I agree with you. It was a massacre, and an excessive one at that. I disagree that it makes me "just as bad as the holocaust deniers" though. You have to understand the context here.
Hungary fell earlier that year, and there was massive unrest in Poland, East Germany, and many other countries across eastern Europe. 1989-1991 saw the complete collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. There was a real threat to communism in China. By May of 1989, a student-led hunger strike galvanized support around the country for the demonstrators, and the protests spread to some 400 cities. This was not a single city protest. This was a huge movement that threatened to overthrow the government. This all led up to the incident at Tiananmen Square. Was it brutal? Sure. Was it as bad as the western media says? Probably not.
In the next decade, the eastern bloc would suffer massively, and China not as much. Today the former communist bloc states are still suffering, while China continues to improve living standards. If comrades like @emizeko could back me up with a couple charts of the fall of living standards in the former USSR and the rising living standards in China I would be much obliged.
Thanks for being reasonable and civil. You're the first reasonable tankie I've come across. Really appreciate it.
You'll find a lot more of that here. Welcome to left unity my friend.
Also, check out Michael Parenti. :party-parenti:
Parenti on so-called "poor" countries
Why are ML countries so authoritarian?
Legendary Yellow Parenti video (warning:long)
Thanks very much!
Final reminder to not use tankie as an insult. Next mod action will be a ban. Thanks.
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True
But its not all in one plaza, its for the events in the whole city.