In Europe (or in particular European countries of your choosing) - on the left-to-right spectrum how would her politics be described?

  • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    She’s a socdem. As far as I know she’s never really advocated for socialism as far as I can tell she’s at best in favor of gentler capitalism.

    • Chububie [comrade/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Stop being American for one second and please realize that our understanding of political labels is broken as fuck.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_social_democracy

      UK labor is basically socdem sure, but technically fabianism is a form of socialism. Not all socialists are Marxist, please look up the first internationale and it’s detractors

      ___

      • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I don’t disagree with you but linguistic evolution is a thing. Like libertarian shouldn’t mean ancap but it does now. That’s just my understanding of it and I prefer to keeping the divide for people tolerant of that kind of reformism away from socialism, or the Nordic model or whatever.

        Also like I really don’t want to get into the socialist equivalent of arguing what subgenre of metal a band is so I’m just gonna leave it at that lol

        • Chububie [comrade/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          See but it isn’t evolving though, we just use doublespeak (language ideology) to shut the Overton window and make moderate stances simultaneously seem more edgy, less pragmatic and more able to coopt radical platforms. We gave up libertarian so now people think subcommandante marcos is against age of consent and we let socialism be too edgy, which allowed shit in France to devolve to the point where the moderates themselves felt like they could get away with a rebranding.

          Also this is like thinking screaming and bat biting is all that metal is, when some of it is really fast tempo prog rock

          • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
            ·
            3 years ago

            We gave up libertarian so now people think subcommandante marcos is against age of consent

            Nobody thinks that lol

              • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
                ·
                3 years ago

                Notice how you added socialist instead of just saying libertarian. And besides most people just say anarchist now. Most people who only know libertarian as an ancap aren’t even aware who the subcommandante is

                  • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

                    M8 another name for libertarian socialism is literally anarchist socialism lol

                    This conversation is unbelievably boring. I’m not doing this “actually theyre melodeath” stuff. It doesn’t matter my point was socdems and aoc are cringe lol

                    • ClathrateG [none/use name]
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ejercito-zapatista-de-liberacion-nacional-a-zapatista-response-to-the-ezln-is-not-anarchist

                      My understanding was that libertarian socialism was a larger set encompassing anarchism as well as other ideologies such as democratic confederalism

                      • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
                        ·
                        3 years ago

                        Ive read this before, it’s really good.

                        . In order for us to make concrete change in our social and political struggles, we cannot limit ourselves by adhering to a singular ideology. Our political and military body encompasses a wide range of belief systems from a wide range of cultures that cannot be defined under a narrow ideological microscope. There are anarchists in our midst, just as there are Catholics

                        This bit is honestly why I find this conversation tedious. I’m not particularly concerned about the etymology of these terms, I just know socdem is, as it’s popularly used now, at the very least useful for drawing a line between people committed to moving away from capitalism and those that aren’t

                        Also mostly what I was responding to from op was the weird assertion that it’s common that people think libsocs are pedophiles or whatever lol

                    • Chububie [comrade/them]
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      Anarchist socialism is just as dumb as refusing to admit that social democracy is just a watered down form of pre Marxist socialism.

    • Chububie [comrade/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Socdems are just a variant of socialism that moderated, socialism existed before Marxism. This is why Cubans say they are communists, not socialists

        • Chububie [comrade/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          I’m thinking of utopian socialists, which was what socdems in Germany started out as before being normalized thanks to the peculiarities of liberalism and kultjrkampf in that country.