In Europe (or in particular European countries of your choosing) - on the left-to-right spectrum how would her politics be described?

  • yukofrezzeda [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    The hard part with these questions is if you 1:1 the foreign policy, the nationalism, and religious stuff or not. Like she'll sign off on all this arms dealing, cite her catholic faith as the basis for her healthcare positions, and partner with overt hawks like Warren. Depending on how you weigh that vs. the stuff like her LGBT positions she could place anywhere from UK labour to a german christian democrat.

  • Straight_Depth [they/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    She'd still be considered center-left within the confines of a center-left party. If she were magically transplanted into, say, the UK, she'd be a Labour MP.

  • SoyViking [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Centre-left. In Denmark she might be a member of the SF party that's basically a succdem party with slightly more leftist/green aesthetics than the big ruling succdem party. The kind of party school teachers who used to smoke a lot of weed and play some guitar (badly) until they got married and bought a house votes for.

  • Pezevenk [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Most of the stuff she says in Greece would be the more lib side Syriza or the more progressive side of KINAL (a stupid boomer party which is basically a remaining vestige of socdem PASOK and will hopefully go away soon because it's dumb). There's some people in right wing New Democracy who are maybe not too far away from her but they are outliers in the party.

  • Invidiarum [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    This is an interesting hard question, since support for M4A is THE signifier for the american left, and this is mostly a settled question in europe. Sure, a singlepayer system is on the agenda for some left parties where there is a partly public partly private insurance market (e.g. germany) and the left would prefer a singlepayer system when building one from scratch. The issue is not that high on any agenda (pay for healthcare workers is a much more important topic there). But the fight for a healthcare system seems much more desperate (people dying because insulin is expensive) and energetic in the us, and I think therefore many europeans see the american left as much more radical than they actually are.

    From a policy standpoint AOC would perfectly fit in with Angela Merkels CDU (christian conservative) , though from her age cohort and mannerisms (also: more online, woc) she could as well be in the right wing of the german greens (which are basically gentrified and woke conservatives). In france I would solidly place her in Macrons thoroughly neoliberal en marche.

    • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
      ·
      3 years ago

      She’s a socdem. As far as I know she’s never really advocated for socialism as far as I can tell she’s at best in favor of gentler capitalism.

      • Chububie [comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Stop being American for one second and please realize that our understanding of political labels is broken as fuck.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_social_democracy

        UK labor is basically socdem sure, but technically fabianism is a form of socialism. Not all socialists are Marxist, please look up the first internationale and it’s detractors

        ___

        • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
          ·
          3 years ago

          I don’t disagree with you but linguistic evolution is a thing. Like libertarian shouldn’t mean ancap but it does now. That’s just my understanding of it and I prefer to keeping the divide for people tolerant of that kind of reformism away from socialism, or the Nordic model or whatever.

          Also like I really don’t want to get into the socialist equivalent of arguing what subgenre of metal a band is so I’m just gonna leave it at that lol

          • Chububie [comrade/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            See but it isn’t evolving though, we just use doublespeak (language ideology) to shut the Overton window and make moderate stances simultaneously seem more edgy, less pragmatic and more able to coopt radical platforms. We gave up libertarian so now people think subcommandante marcos is against age of consent and we let socialism be too edgy, which allowed shit in France to devolve to the point where the moderates themselves felt like they could get away with a rebranding.

            Also this is like thinking screaming and bat biting is all that metal is, when some of it is really fast tempo prog rock

            • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
              ·
              3 years ago

              We gave up libertarian so now people think subcommandante marcos is against age of consent

              Nobody thinks that lol

                • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  Notice how you added socialist instead of just saying libertarian. And besides most people just say anarchist now. Most people who only know libertarian as an ancap aren’t even aware who the subcommandante is

                    • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

                      M8 another name for libertarian socialism is literally anarchist socialism lol

                      This conversation is unbelievably boring. I’m not doing this “actually theyre melodeath” stuff. It doesn’t matter my point was socdems and aoc are cringe lol

                      • ClathrateG [none/use name]
                        ·
                        3 years ago

                        https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ejercito-zapatista-de-liberacion-nacional-a-zapatista-response-to-the-ezln-is-not-anarchist

                        My understanding was that libertarian socialism was a larger set encompassing anarchism as well as other ideologies such as democratic confederalism

                        • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
                          ·
                          3 years ago

                          Ive read this before, it’s really good.

                          . In order for us to make concrete change in our social and political struggles, we cannot limit ourselves by adhering to a singular ideology. Our political and military body encompasses a wide range of belief systems from a wide range of cultures that cannot be defined under a narrow ideological microscope. There are anarchists in our midst, just as there are Catholics

                          This bit is honestly why I find this conversation tedious. I’m not particularly concerned about the etymology of these terms, I just know socdem is, as it’s popularly used now, at the very least useful for drawing a line between people committed to moving away from capitalism and those that aren’t

                          Also mostly what I was responding to from op was the weird assertion that it’s common that people think libsocs are pedophiles or whatever lol

                      • Chububie [comrade/them]
                        ·
                        3 years ago

                        Anarchist socialism is just as dumb as refusing to admit that social democracy is just a watered down form of pre Marxist socialism.

      • Chububie [comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Socdems are just a variant of socialism that moderated, socialism existed before Marxism. This is why Cubans say they are communists, not socialists

          • Chububie [comrade/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            I’m thinking of utopian socialists, which was what socdems in Germany started out as before being normalized thanks to the peculiarities of liberalism and kultjrkampf in that country.