slowly radicalizing me and I don't like it

:sicko-blur:

Can't wait for all my leftist friends that I managed to convince electoralism works rubberband back into tankies bc moderates are massive bitches

:sicko-beaming:

this is literally half my friend group rn and I'm running out of counters

:sicko-crowd:

  • rubpoll [she/her]
    ·
    3 years ago

    The shitty thing is they've really vindicated all the leftist criticisms of moderates being disingenuous incrementalists

    Manchin and Sinema are creating more bitter leftists than AOC at this point

    :party-sicko:

    • Lovely_sombrero [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Yeaa, but if the choice ever comes down between AOC-type candidate and a Manchin-type candidate, the libs will do everything possible to get the conservative elected. I'm certain that 2009-2011 was full of similar comments from the libs as well, it didn't matter when the choice came down between the left and the conservative, they will always choose the conservative.

        • poopoobanana [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Do you remember which subs? I have no idea what even existed back then.

            • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
              ·
              3 years ago

              SRS wasn't really "left" per se. It was a big part of my own pipeline leftward, personally, and it was further to the left than Reddit itself (not that that's hard), and it pissed off chuds on Reddit to a degree we haven't seen since, but I would say it was progressive and probably leave it there. Great for pointing out sexism and racism, but there was no class analysis at all.

              :brd:

      • Throwaway375 [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        The same neolib dipshits were posting trash about median voter theory after Biden won.

        They got what they wanted. Now they get to eat shit. Who cares

      • BigWetSon [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        2009-2011 is when I became a communist, and I never went back

          • HamManBad [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            I was an anti imperialist libertarian who was friends with communists in 2010. I don't know exactly what the scene was like on the left, but I believe "bleak" is a good estimate

            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              A good chunk of libertarians can be moved left -- basically those who give a shit about other people, and just got sucked into a dumb ideology after recognizing that both mainstream parties are bad.

              It's good to keep talking to those folks, too, because giving a shit about people can get worn down over time, and a lot of libertarians who don't become leftists hop on the pipeline to fascism.

      • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        if the choice ever comes down between AOC-type candidate and a Manchin-type candidate, the libs will do everything possible to get the conservative elected

        I mean, a lot of people on here aren't exactly going to help. They're going to call AOC a fascist and hold out for a protracted people's war or general strike. How anyone thinks that's moving the ball forward, I don't know.

          • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of AOC. "sOcIaL fAsCiSt!1!!" is not one of them. There's no path to a mass movement through calling one of the most popular and furthest-left politicians in the country a Nazi.

            And we're not talking about a choice between AOC and Lenin reincarnate; we're talking about a choice between AOC and Joe Manchin. A legitimate critique of what passes for leftist candidates in the U.S. would acknowledge the many ways those candidates are still an improvement over the most conservative of Democrats.

        • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
          ·
          3 years ago

          This is a question I keep coming back to- is there a way to have honest analysis amongst ourselves and also recognizing that some of that analysis suggests actions that aren't a good idea in this moment?

          I personally think a lot of the criticisms of AOC are well founded. But that doesn't mean I'm going to lead with them when talking to libs I'm trying to radicalize, and I don't think most people are suggesting that.

          I guess what I find weird about comments like yours is you seem to be saying we shouldn't even be criticizing her amongst ourselves which, just, why?

          • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            I'm all for honest analysis and criticism -- but calling AOC a fascist is neither. Who does that appeal to outside of (some) terminally-online leftists?

            • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Do you see what you're doing again? You're conflating analysis with tactics.

              Who does that appeal to? Why does it matter if it's not in our messaging?