I don’t want to sound like I have my head up my ass, but do these people just not understand politics? Like real, actual politics. Or rather, do they not understand basic political concepts? (Of course not)
A lot of people there think they have a gotcha by saying the Republicans also oppose it and the media should cover them, as if it’s a big scandal that the opposition is… opposing stuff.
Someone else said that it’s just two senators, so 95% of dems are good, as if 95% of your party getting cucked by 5% isn’t terrible.
A lot of people think Biden just… can’t do anything, like, at all? He’s the most powerful politician on the planet, who can singlehandedly destroy entire countries, but these guys think there are zero avenues to impose authority here. These guys get their entire ideology from West Wing. Isn’t that show’s whole schtick the back room dealings and games of politics?
I mean ffs, one person didn’t know what a whip was, and then assumed America doesn’t have them.
It’s one thing to have an incorrect analysis and be smug about it. It’s another thing to not even have enough information to form an analysis and still be smug about it.
These folks fit the philosophical definition of idealists to a T. They are true believers in liberal democracy, constitutionalism, and rule of law. They think virtue is the defining characteristic of statecraft. They truly believe in loyal opposition. They fully buy into the founding mythology of the United States.
This is why when they look at this shithole falling apart, they believe there has to be a culprit. Some evil man pulling the strings somewhere. Russia, China, Cletus, whoever.
America is a shining city on a hill. A guiding light of liberal, progressive values who's light shall never be extinguished and whose values must be spread. If these values fail or cannot spread, it must be because of foreign interference from the orient- like France, or Germany!, or Russia, no wait Japan, uh aktually China! These authoritarian cultures manipulate our people into adopting tyrannical values which violate human rights and social justice!!!
This is a rallying cry for the American Left. Not all of us, of course, but the broader Left wing of American politics represented by the Federalists through the Progressives than the modern liberal movement. Libs have always been the huge interventionists and the American exceptionalists because our progressive values must be spread or Evil will win!
I know we're all preaching to the choir here, but to answer your first question, no. Most people are only invested in seeing their team, and thereby their team's ideology, win. Even when their side does absolutely nothing, or absolutely nothing different. They will bend the physics of space and time to justify how much worse it would be if Team Y was in power versus their team: Team X.
Libs will justify Bidens inaction by blaming Republicans and Leftists for being obstructionists. Republicans will keep drinking horse paste instead of admitting the vaccination is working to pwn the Libs. This is the world we live in.
Threaten the Senators states, make it expensive to oppose and make them targets. Make it so that the Senators power base is angry with them and they have to switch parties if need be.
You can't get US politics done if you don't use the stuff the US threatens other allies with constantly. Of course there are alternatives, but only as long as the other player is sometimes cooperating, which isn't the case here.
So either the people in power are buffoons, don't want to upset the apple cart or they are fine (well not totally, but fine enough) with what is happening.
it’s funny they are like if we want FDR level change we need an FDR level majority as if FDR didn’t build it by being massively popular and bullying anyone who got in the way
Or just expel them, make it clear that if you can't toe the basic party line you don't belong in the party.
This is how any socialist party should function, obviously not how bourgeois ones do tho.
Libs lose their mind at this concept, mostly because it violates conventional wisdom sold to them by a million talking heads and supposed experts. They don't think past the immediate damage to the slim majority - to what electoral value there would be in actually doing things when they have power, of how effective that would be for recruiting, etc.
Seriously, it’s like these people don’t understand the basic concept of what a political party is. It’s not just a label you get to decide for yourself. A functional political party has a platform, and gets its members to vote for that platform. If you don’t act as a member of the party, you get kicked out. That’s the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF A PARTY.
Yeah I fucking hate it when those people say “don’t forget the 50 Republicans, sweaty.” It’s astroturfed and disingenuous as hell. They’re just trying to deflect blame
These guys get their entire ideology from West Wing. Isn’t that show’s whole schtick the back room dealings and games of politics?
No, that show is exactly the opposite of back room dealing and games. It's apologia for compromise and it always portrays Republicans as principled opposition. It's the "but also 50 republicans" line of thinking.
https://westwingthing.libsyn.com/ Dave Anthony's other podcast which usually devolves into angry socialist screaming about the West Wing. Still haven't watched an episode of West Wing, never will.
2020 should show us that the Democratic Party is perfectly capable of ratfucking a candidate in a primary. Here's an idea, threaten to primary Manchin and Sinema and ratfuck them at every turn if they don't fall in line.
What was it 13 Republican senators voted for the infrastructures bill? And the house still hasn’t put it to a vote? I don’t know how you can say 50 Republicans when you ha e a slight majority and still do t want to vote on it.
I don’t want to sound like I have my head up my ass, but do these people just not understand politics? Like real, actual politics. Or rather, do they not understand basic political concepts? (Of course not)
A lot of people there think they have a gotcha by saying the Republicans also oppose it and the media should cover them, as if it’s a big scandal that the opposition is… opposing stuff.
Someone else said that it’s just two senators, so 95% of dems are good, as if 95% of your party getting cucked by 5% isn’t terrible.
A lot of people think Biden just… can’t do anything, like, at all? He’s the most powerful politician on the planet, who can singlehandedly destroy entire countries, but these guys think there are zero avenues to impose authority here. These guys get their entire ideology from West Wing. Isn’t that show’s whole schtick the back room dealings and games of politics?
I mean ffs, one person didn’t know what a whip was, and then assumed America doesn’t have them.
It’s one thing to have an incorrect analysis and be smug about it. It’s another thing to not even have enough information to form an analysis and still be smug about it.
These folks fit the philosophical definition of idealists to a T. They are true believers in liberal democracy, constitutionalism, and rule of law. They think virtue is the defining characteristic of statecraft. They truly believe in loyal opposition. They fully buy into the founding mythology of the United States.
This is why when they look at this shithole falling apart, they believe there has to be a culprit. Some evil man pulling the strings somewhere. Russia, China, Cletus, whoever.
America is a shining city on a hill. A guiding light of liberal, progressive values who's light shall never be extinguished and whose values must be spread. If these values fail or cannot spread, it must be because of foreign interference from the orient- like France, or Germany!, or Russia, no wait Japan, uh aktually China! These authoritarian cultures manipulate our people into adopting tyrannical values which violate human rights and social justice!!!
This is a rallying cry for the American Left. Not all of us, of course, but the broader Left wing of American politics represented by the Federalists through the Progressives than the modern liberal movement. Libs have always been the huge interventionists and the American exceptionalists because our progressive values must be spread or Evil will win!
GOT DAMNIT CLETUS
Some folk will never overthrow liberal democracy, but then again some folk'll, like Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel!
Liberals always play as Shu in Dynasty Warriors games, and buy into Liu Bei's incessant platitudes about benevolence.
I know we're all preaching to the choir here, but to answer your first question, no. Most people are only invested in seeing their team, and thereby their team's ideology, win. Even when their side does absolutely nothing, or absolutely nothing different. They will bend the physics of space and time to justify how much worse it would be if Team Y was in power versus their team: Team X.
Libs will justify Bidens inaction by blaming Republicans and Leftists for being obstructionists. Republicans will keep drinking horse paste instead of admitting the vaccination is working to pwn the Libs. This is the world we live in.
Threaten the Senators states, make it expensive to oppose and make them targets. Make it so that the Senators power base is angry with them and they have to switch parties if need be.
You can't get US politics done if you don't use the stuff the US threatens other allies with constantly. Of course there are alternatives, but only as long as the other player is sometimes cooperating, which isn't the case here.
So either the people in power are buffoons, don't want to upset the apple cart or they are fine (well not totally, but fine enough) with what is happening.
it’s funny they are like if we want FDR level change we need an FDR level majority as if FDR didn’t build it by being massively popular and bullying anyone who got in the way
Or just expel them, make it clear that if you can't toe the basic party line you don't belong in the party.
This is how any socialist party should function, obviously not how bourgeois ones do tho.
Libs lose their mind at this concept, mostly because it violates conventional wisdom sold to them by a million talking heads and supposed experts. They don't think past the immediate damage to the slim majority - to what electoral value there would be in actually doing things when they have power, of how effective that would be for recruiting, etc.
Seriously, it’s like these people don’t understand the basic concept of what a political party is. It’s not just a label you get to decide for yourself. A functional political party has a platform, and gets its members to vote for that platform. If you don’t act as a member of the party, you get kicked out. That’s the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF A PARTY.
That's not fair, nice, or in the spirit of Democracy. And if we can't protect our values, is it worth it?
Yeah I fucking hate it when those people say “don’t forget the 50 Republicans, sweaty.” It’s astroturfed and disingenuous as hell. They’re just trying to deflect blame
:reddit-logo:
No, that show is exactly the opposite of back room dealing and games. It's apologia for compromise and it always portrays Republicans as principled opposition. It's the "but also 50 republicans" line of thinking.
ah I understand now. As you can see, I have not read the liberal theory
https://westwingthing.libsyn.com/ Dave Anthony's other podcast which usually devolves into angry socialist screaming about the West Wing. Still haven't watched an episode of West Wing, never will.
2020 should show us that the Democratic Party is perfectly capable of ratfucking a candidate in a primary. Here's an idea, threaten to primary Manchin and Sinema and ratfuck them at every turn if they don't fall in line.
Honestly, I don't think that would work because they stand to materially benefit in a huge way by switching over to being a lobbyist or pundit.
That threat only works on people with a modicum of decency.
The problem with that is WV won't elect anyone even a touch to the left of Manchin. It's the very definition of trump country now.
Not saying there aren't ways to strong arm Manchin but even if they wanted to (they don't) getting rid of Manchin would actually hurt the Dems.
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What was it 13 Republican senators voted for the infrastructures bill? And the house still hasn’t put it to a vote? I don’t know how you can say 50 Republicans when you ha e a slight majority and still do t want to vote on it.