Holiday season slowed down progress again, but the series is finally back, in time for the New Year!
The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love is a book by bell hooks about men, patriarchy, the relationship between them, and most importantly love. There is no need to pick up a copy, comrade Sen has already uploaded the entire audiobook onto Youtube. Content warnings are generously provided by Sen at the start of each chapter, however, they may not be as extensive as one might provide on here. This time we are doing Chapter 5, on male sexuality, which I am rather excited for.
Discuss-
-What stood out to you about this chapter?
-Are there any ideas that bell hooks introduces in this chapter that you've never heard of or wish you had heard earlier in your life?
-Are there any stories in this chapter that resonate with you on a personal level?
Previous Chapter Discussions
Chapter 1 discussion
Chapters 2 and 3 discussion
Chapter 4 discussion
Chapter Four (the song)
Some quotes from chapter 5:
- "men come to sex hoping that it will provide them with all of the emotional satisfaction that would come from love. Most men think that sex will provide them with a sense of being alive, connected, that sex will offer closeness, intimacy, pleasure. More often than not sex simply does not deliver the goods. This fact does not lead men to cease obsessing about sex; in fact, it intensifies their lust and their longing."
- "sexist logic had convinced them and convinced them that they can have connection and intimacy without commitment"
- "almost everyone believes that we can have sex without love, most folks do not believe that a couple can have love in a relationship if there is no sex"
- "women are the targets for displaced male rage at the failure of patriarchy to make good on it's promise of fulfillment, especially endless sexual fulfillment"
- "Men may be too terrified to confront the facts of their lives and tell the truth, that possessing the right to engage in rituals of domination and subordination is not all that patriarchy promised it would be. If patriarchy were a disease, it would be a disease of disordered desire"
- "socialising women to conform more to patriarchal male sexual norms is one way patriarchy hopes to address male rage"
This chapter opened with a bang. It led me to think (for the first time in a while) about the one-night-stand and how depressing my one-night-stand experiences have all been. I disagree with Hooks, these experiences did not intensify my lust or longing for (casual) sex. Fortunately for me, I decided the best option was to form a connection before introducing sex into the equation.
The points raised about male rage stemming from the absolute failure of patriarchal masculinity to provide a meaningful existence for men has been made before in a range of texts; however, this is the first time I have read of the indoctrination of women (through porn and popular culture) into patriarchal male sexual norms being used as a tool to address male rage.
Patriarchy says, "Be a part of our gang and you'll be better than those outside of the gang."
Than Patriarchy says, "Hey, you're new to the gang so we're gonna shit on you no matter what you do."
It makes sense to me that there would be frustration at "following the rules of being in the Patriarchy" and "still not winning the respect you were promised by being a member of Patriarchy."
Not winning respect is part of the story, but the book is focusing more on the love, fulfillment and emotional satisfaction that is surrendered in order to fit into this patriarchal society. I can imagine there are a lot of "respected" people who are emotionally bankrupted by this system. Luckily, ignoring this system doesn't mean that you can't keep or grow how much you are respected; the people who respect you will be the thing that changes.
Yeah, but trying to walk away from Patriarchy means you're making yourself a pariah to a huge chunk of the system. Which does make it a harder sell.
The idea of confusion between sexual-desire and emotional-desire really stood out to me. That men are taught that they need their sexual desires fulfilled, but in reality they have emotional needs that are not met. There was a long period in my life when I thought I was being a real bad-ass by compartmentalizing the two, and I’ve been much happier once I realized the connection. And man, if I had found this book when I was in my late teens/ early 20s I could have been a lot happier with my partners.
Some aspects of this chapter seemed dated to me? I think pornography has developed more diversity beyond patriarchal force- it may still have toxic narratives though. It reminded me of Liz Lemon asking Judah Friedlander what her date wants and he replies “like a porno.”
I didn't get much out of this chapter because I've never really had any romantic relationships or even a lot of sex. I didn't undergo that adolescent sexual socialization she talks about, really; I never had many friends in my youth, certainly none I could talk to about this stuff. I remember kinda skimming through this chapter the first time too.
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Fair, baby lefty entry point for sure. Possibly a filter that sifts out left liberals from those who can see past reformism and non-ideological based change arguments maybe... :shrug:
He's 'ight, I think, but he does bad things every now and then, like his near-total silence on the Israel/Palestine situation.
I'll be honest, I've listened to the chapters several times each and every time I find myself scratching my head wondering, "Where/what are you basing this off of?" and waiting for examples that are never shared in the text.
So I'm looking for comparisons to my own life experiences with what she's talking about and only finding the slimiest of connections but more often than not completely lacking in the experiences that she's describing. Which... I guess is a win for being a latch key kid with some pretty hands off parents who grew up in conservative rural areas who mostly just figured things out on my own.
I jotted some notes down on some paper but definitely feel like I'd just be an asshole if put them in the comments about this chapter. I'm not sure I'm ready to show full ass AND balls tonight...
Oh i get to go back and relisten to it...
ummm... One thing that I remember hearing the first time that made my ears perk up was when it sounded like a guy being horny was something that we're taught. It wasn't described as "how a guy acts when they get horny" just, being horny in general is something that is taught.
I'm hoping that I missed something on the first listen to make that sentiment sound less bonkers to me.
From my listen I got that the response to male horniness is what’s learned: that there is a need for sexual release, and that justifies dishonesty and force.
I am re reading chapter 5 with the gang again but bell hooks really helped me understand myself better as a person. Wish I got to meet the legend
Ok I listened to this chapter and really didn't get much out of it. The only thing that really stuck with me was how the need for emotional connection is often disguised as a need for sex within men, which I kind of already knew intuitively.
