seriously guys at least say the volunteers, I've seen too many people who were drafted and had their entire lives ruined by this shit. they didn't want to go there, many intentionally didn't even fight for real (shooting the ground on purpose)
like come on, don't be shitty to the drafted people
I still remember him telling me the story about how a 3-4 year old girl came running up to his platoon with a grenade in her hand and how he had to shoot the girl before she blew up right in front of him. this was one of the least emotional men I've ever known and he just broke down crying and didn't stop for the rest of the night. the agent orange destroyed his health and eventually the cancer from it got him. Don't be shitty to those people, he never wanted that shit and tried to escape the draft when it happened but was caught before he could.
No. They had the option to desert. Giving anyone who complied with the draft a free pass minimizes the bravery of everyone who was either imprisoned or fled the country.
They had a choice, just like every nazi soldier during World War 2. The Korean and Vietnam wars were genocidal campaigns waged against the workers of those countries for daring to throw off their chains.
He could maybe make ammends later in life if he switched sides, but he'd have to accept what he'd done over there was objectively fucking evil.
Edit:
I still remember him telling me the story about how a 3-4 year old girl came running up to his platoon with a grenade in her hand and how he had to shoot the girl before she blew up right in front of him
Gee, I wonder what could drive a group of people to such horribly desperate measures?
the agent orange destroyed his health and eventually the cancer from it got him
"the zyklon B destroyed his health and eventually the cancer from it got him"
Aww poor dude. Why was he surrounded by that much Agent Orange, though? Oh yeah, because he was probably using it on innocent men, women, and children.
Literally the only reason you are saying this is because you, like most Americans, are a chauvinist who sees foreigners as subhumans, and their deaths as an acceptable price for getting a leg up.
Thank you for demonstrating why Americans can't be trusted by anyone in the Global South.
You can in fact, recognize the simple fact the most US soldiers put themselves before the Vietnamese, and who can really blame them?
:I-was-saying:
I can and so can Mohammed Ali and so many other people who stood up against the death machine. You are apologizing for imperialism right now.
The people who were drafted to work the concentration camps during WWII knew what they did was fucked up, why do you think most concentration camp workers after being caught apoligize for their crimes and ask for forgivness? You don’t do that if you were proud of your work or believed the fascist project. Once again, not all Germans were Heinrich fucking Himmler, they were coerced through the violence of the state and had their literal livelyhoods on the line to run the german war machine, and though they have been victims to this system, we still activly pursue these individuals to seek justice years after the fact.
And even among American soldiers there was people who were not down with massacring civilians. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr. This guy saw all of the dead people from a helicopter and told the other people in the helicopter to shoot the us soldiers if they didn't stop murdering and raping people. Like he was still a us soldier fighting for imperialism, but saving some people's lives then testifying against the murderers so they couldn't cover it up is good.
This comment is especially dumb because you'll be homeless and stave as a vet anyway, with ptsd as an added bonus, but whatever you got to say to justify participating in genocide I guess
There was a literal world war between WWI and Vietnam along with vastly wealthier United States and welfare state post-GI bill, Apples and Oranges Comparason.
I'm not making a comparison, I'm saying that this was not some foreign notion to people. The idea that you'd be left out to dry after serving wasn't something you needed a crystal ball to conceptualize. You're the one laughing at the idea that someone could conceive that the government wouldn't take care of them after their service.
I'd like to think I would've gone to jail rather than be drafted, or deserted, but I remember being 18 and dumb, and living in a pre-internet era where left-wing dissident media was even less accessible probably wouldn't help my chances. It's not something that I like to admit, but it does make me the slightest bit hesitant to dunk on vets myself.
Anyone who lives in a country that suffered under US imperialism gets an unlimited dunking pass as far as I'm concerned though
Right, I get what both sides of the argument are saying. I think both make good points, I feel there has to be some synthesis that takes into account how personal choices are limited in these situations, while also not just handing out free war crime passes. Not sure what that is myself.
finally someone gets it. I mean what the fuck do these idiots think a rural southern person would do? them being forced into a war they didn't want to go to doesn't make them monsters
there is a huge difference between drafted ones who hate what they went through and volunteers that glorify what they did, or even draftees that glorify it
What kind of fucking moron goes to war instead of taking a prison sentence? If your buddy making up stupid stories were truly opposed to the war he'd just go to prison instead, where he wouldn't die, kill anyone, or watch his friends die.
Amerika is evil and the more you learn about it the more it sinks in.
Also imagine trying to explain that program to a lib, you would sound absolutely nuts and yet the American government has just openly admitted they did that.
Wow somehow I never heard of "The Draft: Special Education Students Edition" but I don't know why I'm still surprised that america had a program like this
BTW, this just led me to the McNamara fallacy, named after the very same guy who used people with mental disabilities as canon fodder:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy
The McNamara fallacy originates from the Vietnam War, in which enemy body counts were taken to be a precise and objective measure of success. War was reduced to a mathematical model: By increasing estimated enemy deaths and minimizing one's own, victory was assured.
Literally using KDR to delude yourself into the believe that you can win by just doing genocide harder.
Nah, fuck them too. There are many many decisions I would make if I got drafted before you’d see me shooting the Vietnamese in that situation, including going on the run, going to prison, or if I somehow ended up all the way over there I’d be more likely to shoot my commanding officer than the “enemies”.
this is a really dumb take, you have no idea how you'd react if you were faced with prison or going on the run. seriously wtf going on the run, who do you think you are rambo? get fuckin real
Better odds of surviving prison, and without having to murder innocents. Easy fucking choice and the fact that it isn’t a clear choice to some of you is fucking wild.
it being a clear choice to a rural southerner from the 1960s is the goddamn issue, not me.........
I just cannot understand how you guys are so happy to punch down on someone whos entire life was ruined my the american war machine, its really really gross. you guys aren't being leftists you're just cosplaying, otherwise you wouldn't be victim blaming
seriously shit like this is frightening, this isn't being a leftist it's just blind dumb revenge porn shit without thinking through the real implications
seriously guys at least say the volunteers, I've seen too many people who were drafted and had their entire lives ruined by this shit. they didn't want to go there, many intentionally didn't even fight for real (shooting the ground on purpose)
like come on, don't be shitty to the drafted people
I still remember him telling me the story about how a 3-4 year old girl came running up to his platoon with a grenade in her hand and how he had to shoot the girl before she blew up right in front of him. this was one of the least emotional men I've ever known and he just broke down crying and didn't stop for the rest of the night. the agent orange destroyed his health and eventually the cancer from it got him. Don't be shitty to those people, he never wanted that shit and tried to escape the draft when it happened but was caught before he could.
No. They had the option to desert. Giving anyone who complied with the draft a free pass minimizes the bravery of everyone who was either imprisoned or fled the country.
They had a choice, just like every nazi soldier during World War 2. The Korean and Vietnam wars were genocidal campaigns waged against the workers of those countries for daring to throw off their chains.
He could maybe make ammends later in life if he switched sides, but he'd have to accept what he'd done over there was objectively fucking evil.
Edit:
Gee, I wonder what could drive a group of people to such horribly desperate measures?
"the zyklon B destroyed his health and eventually the cancer from it got him"
Aww poor dude. Why was he surrounded by that much Agent Orange, though? Oh yeah, because he was probably using it on innocent men, women, and children.
Don't like capitalism? Starve and become homeless.
Don't like the war your fighting? 5 years in prison, then starve and become homeless.
Easier said than done.
-7DeadlyFetishes
Bruh, I'd rather sit in jail for 5 years than participate in the mai lai massacre.
:doubt:
-7DeadlyFetishes
What the fuck… do you even know what the mai lai massacre was?
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:what:
:downbear:
Worst take
Literally the only reason you are saying this is because you, like most Americans, are a chauvinist who sees foreigners as subhumans, and their deaths as an acceptable price for getting a leg up.
Thank you for demonstrating why Americans can't be trusted by anyone in the Global South.
Yeah… real mask off moment.
On the plus side, I can't think of a situation where the Global South needs to trust Americans.
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:I-was-saying:
I can and so can Mohammed Ali and so many other people who stood up against the death machine. You are apologizing for imperialism right now.
tfw you literally defend the fucking nazis
And even among American soldiers there was people who were not down with massacring civilians. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr. This guy saw all of the dead people from a helicopter and told the other people in the helicopter to shoot the us soldiers if they didn't stop murdering and raping people. Like he was still a us soldier fighting for imperialism, but saving some people's lives then testifying against the murderers so they couldn't cover it up is good.
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YES THEY WERE. THIS IS LITERALLY DOCUMENTED HISTORY
"Hear me out though:"
:both-sides:
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:bruh-moment:
5 years in prison rather than killing innocent human beings? Idk about you but for me that’s a really easy decision to make.
Yeah this is some !just_imperial_core_things@hexbear.net shit.
I'm sure almost all americans think that, tbh
lol fucking bet
-7DeadlyFetishes
This comment is especially dumb because you'll be homeless and stave as a vet anyway, with ptsd as an added bonus, but whatever you got to say to justify participating in genocide I guess
fucking lol did you expect the soliders to have magic crystal balls to predict their futures? Fuck off with your gotcha comment
-7DeadlyFetishes
You need a crystal ball to know what happened after WW1 with the Bonus army?
There was a literal world war between WWI and Vietnam along with vastly wealthier United States and welfare state post-GI bill, Apples and Oranges Comparason.
-7DeadlyFetishes
I'm not making a comparison, I'm saying that this was not some foreign notion to people. The idea that you'd be left out to dry after serving wasn't something you needed a crystal ball to conceptualize. You're the one laughing at the idea that someone could conceive that the government wouldn't take care of them after their service.
Genocide apologist says what
Where did I apoligize for the genocide? Like can you point to the exact quote?
-7DeadlyFetishes
I'd like to think I would've gone to jail rather than be drafted, or deserted, but I remember being 18 and dumb, and living in a pre-internet era where left-wing dissident media was even less accessible probably wouldn't help my chances. It's not something that I like to admit, but it does make me the slightest bit hesitant to dunk on vets myself.
Anyone who lives in a country that suffered under US imperialism gets an unlimited dunking pass as far as I'm concerned though
Right, I get what both sides of the argument are saying. I think both make good points, I feel there has to be some synthesis that takes into account how personal choices are limited in these situations, while also not just handing out free war crime passes. Not sure what that is myself.
Material conditions don't erase free will, so even if you fell for propaganda and never heard alternatives, it's still bad to be a troop
finally someone gets it. I mean what the fuck do these idiots think a rural southern person would do? them being forced into a war they didn't want to go to doesn't make them monsters
there is a huge difference between drafted ones who hate what they went through and volunteers that glorify what they did, or even draftees that glorify it
Damn imagine how the victims of the genocide he helped carry out feel!
What kind of fucking moron goes to war instead of taking a prison sentence? If your buddy making up stupid stories were truly opposed to the war he'd just go to prison instead, where he wouldn't die, kill anyone, or watch his friends die.
you probably would, like most of the people forced there
Ah but I have access to the forbidden information: doing jungle genocide is more likely to result in my death than going to prison.
McNamara's Morons would probably like a word with OP
I swear this site has caused my hate for this country to exponentially grow when I read this type of shit.
Amerika is evil and the more you learn about it the more it sinks in.
Also imagine trying to explain that program to a lib, you would sound absolutely nuts and yet the American government has just openly admitted they did that.
:agony-minion:
Wow somehow I never heard of "The Draft: Special Education Students Edition" but I don't know why I'm still surprised that america had a program like this
:brak: ”boy howdy, it’s an ableist edition of the children’s crusade!”
Thanks amerika, very cool.
What the actual fuck :agony-soviet:
BTW, this just led me to the McNamara fallacy, named after the very same guy who used people with mental disabilities as canon fodder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy
Literally using KDR to delude yourself into the believe that you can win by just doing genocide harder.
:amerikkka: :amerikkka: :amerikkka:
I just learned something terrible
Nah, fuck them too. There are many many decisions I would make if I got drafted before you’d see me shooting the Vietnamese in that situation, including going on the run, going to prison, or if I somehow ended up all the way over there I’d be more likely to shoot my commanding officer than the “enemies”.
this is a really dumb take, you have no idea how you'd react if you were faced with prison or going on the run. seriously wtf going on the run, who do you think you are rambo? get fuckin real
Better odds of surviving prison, and without having to murder innocents. Easy fucking choice and the fact that it isn’t a clear choice to some of you is fucking wild.
it being a clear choice to a rural southerner from the 1960s is the goddamn issue, not me.........
I just cannot understand how you guys are so happy to punch down on someone whos entire life was ruined my the american war machine, its really really gross. you guys aren't being leftists you're just cosplaying, otherwise you wouldn't be victim blaming
seriously shit like this is frightening, this isn't being a leftist it's just blind dumb revenge porn shit without thinking through the real implications