I really don't get that. Isn't someone pointing or critiquing a flaw in ones character which has a negative impact on others a good thing? Like wouldn't that be something you as a person would want to correct?
Okay everyone needs to work on themselves but if you don't understand how those exact three sentences you just used would be absolutely condescending and infuriating to most people you should get someone else to handle the conversations about peoples' flaws. I got instinctively angry just reading it.
There is a certain inherent level of condescension in the assumption that working on your flaws or even acknowledging them in a serious way is so easy. Especially for people actively trying to work on them.
Like imagine walking up to a fat person, saying "Hey, you're fat. You should eat less to work on that.", and then following it up with a "why are you so angry? I work on my problems all the time!"
Most people in most places are aware of their problems in some sense. Hypermasculine macho guys too, they're constantly insecure. But the absofuckinglutely worst way to start a conversation with the aim of helping them change things is to just point out what's wrong, because it's inherently an issue they're sensitive about.
But no one walked up to you or did any equivalent thing. Nothing was directed at you. If I were talking to you one on one, I would introduce the idea and ask you about your experiences. But the expectation in a group setting like this is that people can state their own experiences and engage with the responses if they want. No one needs to be sensitive to any individual man’s insecurities here.
Like I have anger management issues. If someone comes up to me knowing this and goads me into getting pissed at them, I’m not gonna regret punching them in the face. Sure, the post-anger cooldown feels like shit, but I would have no problem telling that person they deserved it and can fuck off. But if I’m in a room where people are venting about their ex partners who had rage problems, taking that personally and remaining there until I got pissed would be my own failure. If I did take it personally, I would need to acknowledge that as an irrational thought and excuse myself if my coping techniques didn’t work.
This applies to people who haven’t begun that process as well. If a man has insecurity issues that he hasn’t started to deal with yet, him getting pissed at the mention of male insecurity is valid, but it is not healthy or good and does not justify toxic behavior as a result of those feelings. To say otherwise is to imply that all feelings and insecurities ought to be catered to and centered by others, which is the recipe for abuse.
Men apparently really don’t like being told that many of them have work to do.
I really don't get that. Isn't someone pointing or critiquing a flaw in ones character which has a negative impact on others a good thing? Like wouldn't that be something you as a person would want to correct?
Okay everyone needs to work on themselves but if you don't understand how those exact three sentences you just used would be absolutely condescending and infuriating to most people you should get someone else to handle the conversations about peoples' flaws. I got instinctively angry just reading it.
At what?
There is a certain inherent level of condescension in the assumption that working on your flaws or even acknowledging them in a serious way is so easy. Especially for people actively trying to work on them.
Like imagine walking up to a fat person, saying "Hey, you're fat. You should eat less to work on that.", and then following it up with a "why are you so angry? I work on my problems all the time!"
Most people in most places are aware of their problems in some sense. Hypermasculine macho guys too, they're constantly insecure. But the absofuckinglutely worst way to start a conversation with the aim of helping them change things is to just point out what's wrong, because it's inherently an issue they're sensitive about.
Good thing the patriarchy isn’t about them individually then
:vivian-shrug:
But no one walked up to you or did any equivalent thing. Nothing was directed at you. If I were talking to you one on one, I would introduce the idea and ask you about your experiences. But the expectation in a group setting like this is that people can state their own experiences and engage with the responses if they want. No one needs to be sensitive to any individual man’s insecurities here.
Like I have anger management issues. If someone comes up to me knowing this and goads me into getting pissed at them, I’m not gonna regret punching them in the face. Sure, the post-anger cooldown feels like shit, but I would have no problem telling that person they deserved it and can fuck off. But if I’m in a room where people are venting about their ex partners who had rage problems, taking that personally and remaining there until I got pissed would be my own failure. If I did take it personally, I would need to acknowledge that as an irrational thought and excuse myself if my coping techniques didn’t work.
This applies to people who haven’t begun that process as well. If a man has insecurity issues that he hasn’t started to deal with yet, him getting pissed at the mention of male insecurity is valid, but it is not healthy or good and does not justify toxic behavior as a result of those feelings. To say otherwise is to imply that all feelings and insecurities ought to be catered to and centered by others, which is the recipe for abuse.
I know plenty of people who would react that way, but nowhere near most of them. I think I would have gotten defensive when I was younger, though.